What radiator?
- Thread starter Estacada
- Start date
Chuck78
Well-known member
Stuntnuts, it looks like you're still running the stock Samurai steering box, correct? How does the hood clear, and how does the lower radiator hose look to clear the steering shaft rag joint? I mocked mine up with cardboard to compare the 24.5" or 25" wide radiators vs the 28" wide which I really wanted to run, and noticed that I'd probably have to do more hood clearancing or move the radiator rearward further and up, if I wanted to run the 28" wide and clear that lower hose vs the Samurai steering shaft joint. I'll have to re-evaluate the fitment mockup over the weekend before I make any decisions on which of my top choices is best. Or just hold off until I'm doing the swap. I'm still in the parts gathering stages, slowly... trying to get nearly everything planned out and the majority of the parts purchased before I tear into it...stuntnuts date=1619116416 said:Mk2 Golf/Jetta. The longer of the two sizes, flipped upside down.
I am running the stock steering gear. No issues of rubbing hoses whatsoever. The hood shuts without any cutting of the hood core. Here are more pics from my build thread that tell the story the best...
I'm using an AEB 1.8t thermostat outlet, it kicks the lower radiator hose 45 degrees to the engine.
The lower radiator hose is a combo of a stock ABA lower radiator hose, a Jegs 90 degree coolant hose adapter and a lower portion of a Quantum lower radiator hose...
It clears, no problem...
I'm using an AEB 1.8t thermostat outlet, it kicks the lower radiator hose 45 degrees to the engine.
The lower radiator hose is a combo of a stock ABA lower radiator hose, a Jegs 90 degree coolant hose adapter and a lower portion of a Quantum lower radiator hose...
It clears, no problem...
Chuck78
Well-known member
stuntnuts date=1619188094 said:I am running the stock steering gear. No issues of rubbing hoses whatsoever. The hood shuts without any cutting of the hood core. Here are more pics from my build thread that tell the story the best...
I'm using an AEB 1.8t thermostat outlet, it kicks the lower radiator hose 45 degrees to the engine.
The lower radiator hose is a combo of a stock ABA lower radiator hose, a Jegs 90 degree coolant hose adapter and a lower portion of a Quantum lower radiator hose...
It clears, no problem
THAT'S GREAT!!!!
I was pretty set on this 28"x12.5" VW radiatior, but my first cardboard mockup very late in the midnight hours a few nights ago made me think perhaps the lower hose would in fact interfere with the steering shaft rag joint... I was even pulling up Toyota IFS steering box conversion info earlier just to move the steering shaft over to the outboard mounted steering 86-95 Toyota box to better fit this radiatior!
Heck, for crawlers, doing exactly that, IFS or FJ80 box, would nearly allow the 28" x15" VR6 radiators to fit between the wheelwells with just a slight bit of massaging the inner fenderwells!
cygnus x-1
Well-known member
Something to be aware of; I think the timing cover on the diesel engines sticks out more than on the gas engines, due to the wider belt. So you may not be able to lean the radiator back quite so much. Also, if you're going to be running a GM alternator conversion on the exhaust side of the engine, it sits up fairly high, which will also limit how much you can lean the radiator back. In my setup the alternator pulley is quite close to one of the fan motors, which ultimately was the limiting factor for me.
C|
C|
Hey guys, been looking over and over this place trying to decide which radiator might work for me. I've got 1.9 tdi in my 86 Samurai with sidekick power steering. I can't use the 26 inch wide radiators because of that being in the way. I've got about 21.5" between the steering gear and the other side. She's been getting hot when I'm in 4th and 5th pulling pretty good. Gets up to 225 degrees or so. I saw someone else had this problem with a stock or stock replacement radiator. The corolla radiator seems like it would be a good fit if it can keep it cool. I've got a 16" fan I can run with it. Any thoughts? Also, this is happening while it's pretty cold outside so I'm not sure what will happen in the warmer months. Arg! Having trouble pulling the trigger on anything.
Spokerider
Well-known member
jasper said:
Well, as you have found out, shoe-horning a diesel into a Samurai engine bay really isn't that difficult, but getting all of the engine accessories in that you desire, and achieving appropriate engine cooling, are. This is "the" dirty little secret that no one wants to tell you before you purchase the engine swap kit, or if others have told you, it has fallen on deaf ears.
There are multi facets to this problem, which are actually individual problems that have culminated into what you are experiencing.
Yes, your worries about engine temps rising further when ambient temps rise, are a valid concern. Yes, it will happen.
I have a "idi" diesel in my Samurai, and I have done what I can to mitigate all of the facets that cause the engine to get too hot.
Exactly how hot IS too hot, before head damage occurs? Good luck finding / getting a solid, straight up answer on that one. Most answers will be vague, non-committal, un-tested over time and many events, and thus pretty much useless.
How hot can your engine get and still be in a "safe" zone. This is a little easier to answer.
I will put my answer down as 225 deg. Yes, this may be a bit conservative, but different temp gauges, senders, and other temp measuring devices will all have variances in their readings, and there are different ways that folks engineer their cooling hoses, routing and connections, that can in itself, cause cooling problems.
Some of the facets with the diesel / Samurai swap, that contribute to running hot, are:
The amount of physical space that the engine takes up, in the engine bay. The engine, plus all of the other goodies that we add in......power steering, alt swap, wiring, relays, air compressors, etc, etc, all take up physical space, and all inhibit "air flow". Yes...you have a fan or two, that in theory, have the CFM to sufficiently cool any rad, but there is no where for the heated air, having passed through the fan/s, that are mere millimeters away from the engine, to go. So, it is "held" inside the engine bay, like a hot-air bubble, with no real egress out of the engine bay.
Those tiny little zuk hood slots do nothing to allow enough air flow. This is the issue that I am still dealing with. My 1.9TD Golf engine bay didn't get hot, my 1.6TD Jetta engine bay doesn't get hot, but man alive, the zuk engine bay sure holds the heat.
In your post, other factors that I can identify with contributing to high engine temps are; the TDI vs an IDI. The TDI makes more power, and thus puts out more heat. Same thing if you have turned up the fuel on your idi or tdi. More fuel = more heat.
Installing tracker PS., if it was installed in the conventional location that most install it in. This takes up valuable real estate, that is better served with a larger radiator, in the optimum location.
Other considerations that can effect running temps / cooling.......incorrectly routing of coolant hoses, orientation of coolant hoses, air traps in coolant hoses, choice of, and use of oil / water coolers, or not. Use of intercooler, or not. Installing an alt in a location that interferes with radiator placement. Oil volume of oil pan....more is better. Use of "engine ice" or other similar product.... it all helps. Not running the engine [ cruising speed ] at the rpm where max torque is made [ most efficient rpm ] increases engine heat and thus coolant temps.
The water pump on an idi or tdi, is not a pump, but rather a "circulator". The difference to us, is.......any high spot in the plumbing, can and will become an air trap. There is only one correct way to plumb / route hoses and connections on an idi or tdi. Get it wrong and you will surely have cooling problems. Some water pump impeller design can slightly effect coolant flow too, with less or more "circulation".
If you look at Jeff's / Acme coolant diagram, that almost everybody here has referred to, for their diesel swap, you will note that the rear-most coolant fitting on the cylinder head is plumbed directly into zuk heater core. Why is it like this?? Because its the "easiest" to do, of course! If you do this, and when warmer temps come and you choose not to open the valve on the heater core, then you have essentially blocked off 1/3 of the cylinder head cooling. Ya.....this is well thought out ain't it? Install a "bypass" to allow coolant to flow past the heater core, unhindered, when not using cabin heat.
There is more to it, as you can see. But essentially you need to decide which components, PS design and placement, alt choice and placement, and "anything" that interferes with radiator real estate, is of priority. I made radiator size, design and placement a priority with my build, and still have cooling issues when grinding up a steep hill, in first and second gear, on a warm summer day.
Use of engine ice, a better water pump impeller, 6.5 liter oil capacity pan, a large oil to water cooler, and correct coolant plumbing have all helped, but it still ain't perfect. I still need to pull over on a hot summer day and let it cool down with fans running, once the temps hit 220.
Too conservative? Perhaps..... but I am interested in engine longevity, and not having to replace a warped head or a head with dropped cups, anytime soon.
Chuck78
Well-known member
I would be leaning towards the system not being plumbed quite properly. Which TDI engine are you running? The first generation of TDI engines, the AHU & 1Z, are the much preferred engine models for a Samurai swap in particular, as they fit significantly easier than The second generation which here in the US is the ALH engine, but the two generations of engine are completely different and have different cooling flow requirements. And as was just mentioned, you absolutely need a bypass type heater valve inline. NOT an on/off valve that blocks flow entirely.
Also, how much boost are you running, and are you running an intercooler? How is the intercooler installed? Is it sucking cool air from ahead of the radiator? Is the intercooler in front of the radiator? Is it behind the radiator under the hood? It absolutely needs cool air going to it. You will quickly run up the temperatures if your intercooler is just pumping more hot air.
Also, how much boost are you running, and are you running an intercooler? How is the intercooler installed? Is it sucking cool air from ahead of the radiator? Is the intercooler in front of the radiator? Is it behind the radiator under the hood? It absolutely needs cool air going to it. You will quickly run up the temperatures if your intercooler is just pumping more hot air.
Suzuki_dude
Well-known member
Do you have the head steam port connected to anything or blocked off? Most swaps that run too hot are plumbed wrong.jasper said:
If it's a tdi and not an idi it will run cooler. They need LESS fuel to make the same power.
If you don't have an intercooler get one. It makes a huge difference to coolant temps even if it covers the rad. My intercooler covers the whole rad and it runs cooler than when I temporarily drove without an intercooler.
Chuck78
Well-known member
Exactly what he said. A properly plumbed IDI barely even needs a radiator fan to run cool in all but start and stop traffic and rock crawling. I had a fan relay on the TDI get stuck on so one fan would never shut off and was running in single digit Fahrenheit temperatures last winter. Didn't want to kill the battery and too cold to troubleshoot so I just unplugged the fan. Never had to plug it in the entire summer, even towing, temperature gauge still stayed steady right where it needs to be on the TDI. Using a proper cross flow radiator really helps, or an upgraded downflow much larger than a stock Samurai will be the next best thing to a proper radiator.
Also your boost levels and intercooler size and intercooler location/ducting play a ***HUGE*** part in it as well.
Also your boost levels and intercooler size and intercooler location/ducting play a ***HUGE*** part in it as well.
alans87zuk
Active member
I have 2 1984 Quantum radiators with a/c , The damn things are 30.5" wide tank to tank which as you all know is way to f@#$ing wide I have looked every where for this mystical 26" Quantum radiator and can't find one! even the core dimension 27.25 ! So I'm with Chuck78 thinking about the Jetta and flipping it 180. Has anyone tried it? I really don't want to beat the inner fender to crap with a hammer! I'd sooner cut and weld to shape it.
alans87zuk
Active member
Chuck78 So what did you end up using???? dying to know 
Chuck78
Well-known member
The Mk3 12.5" wide enay aluminum radiators are the best option in my opinion, so that's what I boughtalans87zuk said:Chuck78 So what did you end up using???? dying to know
Lots of them available for $150-ish on ebay if searching "93-99 Mk3 radiator."
Now on intercooler choices, that's not so straightforward if going the cheaper/simer air to air, but there are a lot of options. I started another thread as a spin-off on this called "What Intercooler?".
My project is on hold at the moment so not running yet, but ALWAYS on my mind...
Chuck78
Well-known member
Chuck78 said:
One of these. Slight clearancing needed depending on configuration, but this was pretty much the best thing I could find, and it's 2" narrower than the Quantum 30" radiator.
Also of note, there are 2 different sizes of radiators for these vehicle applications, so make sure you're getting the slightly less common 12.5" tall version.
alans87zuk
Active member
for inter cooler I was thinking maybe this.https://www.ebay.com/itm/253959399401
alans87zuk
Active member
so that radiator is the one you would have to flip over then isn't it ?
Chuck78
Well-known member
you just install it in the orientation you need, which is rotated 180? from how it's installed in the intended OEM transverse FWD configuration. The radiator doesn't really care which is top vs bottom, & the OEM VW cooling fan temperature switch is located basically in the middle if the cross flow path on the opposite side tank, so it's going to read the same. If you even use that. I likely will.alans87zuk said:
alans87zuk
Active member
Spokerider said:
So does anyone have a diagram of a properly plumbed IDI! I'm just getting started on mine and would much prefer to not have heating issue's.Chuck78 said:
alans87zuk
Active member
So spokerider I have 2 different outlets for the back of the head one is just straight out the other has a straight out and a 90 turn on it . So better to use the second one but where do you plumb the other one to?
alans87zuk
Active member
If I could figure out how to post a picture I would!
