What radiator?

[Spokerider]

Exactly. when we had the acme radiator bolted in with a 1.6, the radiator was something like 1" from the timing cover, and obscuring half of both fans. I cant remember the exact measurement, but it was tight. tight enough that the gap was probably a restriction to the flow area for the fan. I have read at least 4 different accounts that all say that even the acme radiator will still let the engine get hot when they are crawling. when cruising its fine.  so, i'm going to try it and see how it works!

Might be something too that.
Mine heats up too much for my liking on the trails. On the pavement, it's fine.

Maybe a pusher fan [ also ] would help move more wind.

 

[Chuck78]

As you may have read me ranting about elsewhere here and Suzuki Diesel on FB, I'm using the Doomsday Diesel early version clocked Toyota adapter, and pushing the engine back several inches and clearancing the passenger side of the firewall in a small area to clear the VW vacuum pump and coolant flange on the back of the head, so this is yet another bonus in that it gives more room for air to flow through the radiator... Although to get that extra inch or so of clearance that I want beyond what the best choices of VW OEM style coolant flanges can offer (even clearancing the firewall directly behind the head where it is with the engine clocked over at 20 degrees, the 1.25" upper radiator hose flange is still in the real estate occupied by the Samurai blower motor, which isn't nearly as negotiable for an easy swap), I'm going to probably custom machine a coolant flange in my desired configuration 1" lower profile than the OEM, and if I end up TIG welding it together vs making it all machined from one 8" long 2" x 2.5" billet 6061 chunk, I'll probably put a 45 degree bend in the radiator hose connection so that it shoots forward so that I can squeeze the most clearance possible out of the install.


Currently, I'm torn between the 28" wide x 12.5" tall 95-98 Cabrio 2.0L radiator, and the 24.5" wide x 12.5" tall  85-91 1.8L Cabrio radiator in post 36 above https://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=135504.msg1352723#msg1352723
Decision time is nearing as I am down to only needing radiator, clutch & pressure plate, hydraulic engine mounts (Anchor or BHW?), and a few other smaller items for the swap... Intercooler and tubing, and driveshafts, will be the ones that I start the project without, as I need to really see how everything else will fit together before finalizing those decisions... That smaller 85-91 Cabrio 1.8L radiator will leave a more preferable place to put an intercooler, or to plumb an intercooler, but I could run a same-side long skinny intercooler directly UNDER the 24.5" wide radiator as well, which would also lend itself to some pretty tidy plumbing.

 

[Chuck78]

Also while talking about radiators, I'm starting to shop for my boost intake charge air radiators, aka intercoolers... The Toyota MR2 Side Mount intercoolers with a 7"x9.5" core look tempting for smaller boost goals of 15-18psi:



I also had a few ebay auction links saved in my watch list from searching "Same Side Intercooler" - the inlet and outlet are directly next to each other, so as to not clutter up the engine bay with lots more length and fittings worth of boost piping.  Works just like the VW crossflow radiators only not as tall!  Might be able to fit one in front of and underneath the 95-98 VW Cabrio radiator application, but then it is prone to more mud, may have to make a louvered shield for it. The MR2 intercooler above mounted vertically to the right (passenger side) of the shorter width radiator may be really nice, but the wider radiator will allow more insurance in the event that the predominately chinese-made cooling fans fail.  I'll probably try and run 2 cooling fans I'm thinking.  That's an extra failsafe.  

My hotter running by design 1.6TD I ran for a whole summer with no cooling fan (eventually tracked it down to a broken wire in the harness), and that thing hardly ever broke a sweat, and that was only climbing mountain grades or start and stop freeway traffic in the heat of the summer...

 

[Chuck78]

I'd also like to add that although I think k1n3k ended up going with a Toyota IFS steering box mounted on the outside of the frame rail, that idea of using a Samurai/Gypsy King Right Hand Drive steering box mounted in the stock Samurai location but on the outside of the frame rails, well...THAT'S GENIUS for making more clearance for the radiator! 
You'll need a longer drag link though, one intended for a Toyota IFS or FJ80 steering box - as both mount outside of the frame rail.  I also realized that a longer drag link for the Toyota IFS '86-'95 steering boxes (or the early (different mounting bolt pattern '80-'84) or late ('85-'90) FJ60 boxes or the ('90-'97) FJ80 boxes needing to run a longer drag link WILL in fact help slightly cut down on bump steer tendencies...as the longer drag link will have the effect of changing in angle slightly less than one a few inches shorter, during suspension travel... so less bump steer effect!
I may be considering the Toyota steering box swap more now even though I was die hard manual steering only, for fuel mpg and simplicity... But I did spy some IFS manual steering boxes as well, and I do love skinny tires, easier to steer, but manual steering will still rip your arms off or break your thumbs if your tire grabs a deep rut or deflects wrong off of a big rock!!! That was the convincing point for me...
FJ60 steering box install from another thread on here:

IFS Toyota is forward mounted as the Samurai is but still mounts on the outside of the frame rail.  FJ60 and FJ80 are rearward mounted with a forward facing pitman arm as shown here.

 

[k1n3k]

the RHD steering box is for sure the easiest swap. That was originally my first choice, but after 3 attempts to acquire one and getting scammed several times I gave up on the RHD steering box.   

though I was able to fit up the worn out housing I had, and can confirm it fits as desired. Your toyota axles get you the clearance you need between the box and tire at full lock and full flex. 

Just don't buy a "New" box from India. 

 

[Spokerider]

the RHD steering box is for sure the easiest swap. That was originally my first choice, but after 3 attempts to acquire one and getting scammed several times I gave up on the RHD steering box. 

though I was able to fit up the worn out housing I had, and can confirm it fits as desired. Your toyota axles get you the clearance you need between the box and tire at full lock and full flex.

Just don't buy a "New" box from India.

Ummmmm........might be worth while going to India and tuning up the scammer    .
Man, do I hate scammers.

 

[Chuck78]

ooohhhh wow, here's another really awesome and higher quality radiator and shroud option, an oversized radiator with left hand inlet/outlet designed for Mk1 VW applications with higher performance engine swaps...  but you definitely pay for it, this seems to be all highly reputable and hand built in-house by this company.

https://shop.eurowise.com/product-p/ew1170.htm

It's 11" tall, the shortest I've found so far, x 27" width from the outside edges of the tanks, but the mounting feet extend a slight bit wider at the very bottom. 
The Samurai grill opening was somewhere a bit over 26", so the core width and height of this would fill up most of the Samurai grill width with just about half of each tank showing if viewed from the front through the Samurai grill.
The price is a bit prohibitive however.... but man this thing is a dream of a swap radiator for a Samurai VW turbodiesel rig!

I was pretty darn set on the 93-98 Mk3 Golf etc radiator that's around 28" overall width and 12.5" height, 2-row core etc... $133 for a decent quality Chinese aftermarket GPI Racing etc branding... but shopping for shrouds for it had me stumbling upon this thing!
I'm also shopping for intercoolers...  running the wider radiators makes intercooler piping and fitment a bit more difficult, as does keeping the stock Samurai steering box on the inside of the frame rail vs running a RHD Samurai etc box on the outside of the frame rail, or Toyota IFS box or FJ60 or FJ80 box also on the outside of the frame rails...  I've got a handful of intercooler selections narrowed down, I might make a post on that as well if I can get the time. It may help me in choosing, as well as help others out.

 

[Chuck78]

And here's yet another option at a bit lower price but still seemingly more reputable than the chinese aftermarket aluminum radiators... Sal @ S&P Automotive who specializes in Mk1 and Mk2 VW parts... I just google searched Mk1 VR6 radiator and came back to Sal's S&P site and gave his radiators a deeper look after discovering that EuroWise Mk1 VR6 swap rad...
Sal's is a fair bit more than the Chinese radiators obviously, but I'd imagine are a higher quality product, and also have the bottom foot mounts welded on, which could make mounting them a bit easier with less creative fab work needed, and Sal also sells some fan shrouds for them in single or dual fans, with or without fans and controllers. This one takes the standard VW temperature switch for the fan controls, whereas the EuroWise fancy 27" wide radiator  that's slightly wider and slightly thicker uses a 3/8" NPT bung for whatever coolant sensor switch you can get to fit in there and link with your fan controller.

This is advertised as 11" tall and 24" wide, and for Mk1 VR6 swaps...  the VR6 probably runs hotter than a 1.9TDI or 2.0TDI I'm guessing, so maybe I'm going overboard looking at the 28" wide radiators? Some listings for those do however list the 1.9TDI as one of it's applications, however... so 28" x 12.5" was a stock TDI size... but if a slightly smaller core works as well...hmmm???
a 24" wide Radiator like some of the other Mk1/Mk2 radiators I posted above do allow more room for an intercooler to mount inside the grill in the hood latch area, while giving some room on the passenger side of the grill to route intercooler tubing out of the grill area.

https://s-pautomotive.com/product/sp-tucked-radiator-shorty/

link with shroud and fan options, fan wiring controllers etc:
https://s-pautomotive.com/product/sp-radiator-and-shroud-package/

 

[Chuck78]

I got a reply from Sal @ S&P Automotive (Mk1 & Mk2 VW parts and upgrades shop, some of the rads above), and this is what he said about his VR6 etc Mk1/2 radiators:

"All radiators except the stock Scirocco are 25? tank to tank.  Standard Mk1 and Mk2 rads are 11.75? tall, while my tucked versions are 10? tall.
With an ALH, you don?t need anything oversized."

His are pretty darn nice... I'm torn between one of those and the Chinese GPI Racing or Winner Racing etc... Sal has nice thick plate alumimum single and dual fan shrouds...quality fans...and most likely a higher quality radiator as well, and it has foot mounts for easier bolting in vs the pin mount style of the eBay Mk2/Mk3 radiators I'm looking at.





I still am highly considering the 28" wide x 12.5" tall Mk3 radiators to fill the whole grille space, as that gives me stock replacement fitment, and more cooling area, so I can rest assured that when crawling off-road in the summer heat, or if I have a fan failure, my engine will still have quite a lot of cooling capacity...

As I said before, my stock radiator 1.6TD Rabbit pickup did fine with no cooling fan for quite a while as long as I made sure I didn't get stopped long in rush hour traffic... and pulling big mountain grades with a dirtbike or motorcycle in the bed, it'd creep up beyond the normal mark on the temp gauge.  And the old IDI TD's created a lot more heat in the cylinder heads than the TDI's do...

The 23" or 24" wide core radiators like Sal sells and stock, they WILL allow you to put the radiator over to the steering box side of the grill and leave 2.5"-3" open space on the left to route a same-side intercooler's tubing out of the grill area easily...

 

[Chuck78]

Sal  @ S&P Automotive got back to me on the LH Rabbit and LH Scirocco radiators he sells for Mk1/Mk2 engine swaps...  He doesn't have any of the Rabbit LH radiators in stock, 2 week lead time to get one if ordered, but he has the Scirocco LH rads in stock...  Scirocco has a fill neck and radiator cap on the radiator, and the left tank is tapered and widens at the top to accomodate the upper radiator hose being slightly inwards toward the center a little more than the lower.  Other than that, the dimensions are identical he says. 



I gotta say, in conjunction with his nice gasketed fan shrouds and high quality SPAL fans, these 2 LH version Mk1/Mk2 VW upgrade performance engine swap radiators are probably the single best thing we could get for our Samurai VW diesel swaps...  I wanted to make the 28" wide x 12.5" tall Chinese aftermarket aluminum Mk2/Mk3 post mount radiators work, but the dimensions on this will fit over the steering box and directly above the frame rails and in between the fenderwells quite nicely, and the mounting feet make it really nice and simple to install... he also sells nice quality fan controllers.
I'm not 100% set on them due to being a bit more money, but man they will save a bit of work and fit better, and save a lot more work fabbing my own shroud up or modifying a junkyard plastic shroud...  26x1.5 is the overall size not including the mounting feet.  The mounting feet add I'm guessing 7/8" to each side. 








My engine is getting pushed back by the way, so I'm pushing the radiator back to the rear portion of the Samurai stock steering box, as to leave room for intercoolers as well as to not block the bolts and adjustment screw on the top of the Samurai steering box. 
Take note that some of his regular radiators are 11" tall, so that'd fit very easily above the steering box even.


Now I've just gotta get out in the garage and figure on how high my cylinder head rear coolant flange will sit as far as radiator hose location, and then mock up how high the Scirocco filler neck will sit, and if it's just a touch higher than the rear of the cylinder head, then the S&P Scirocco LH radiator it is! Otherwise if the rear of the head is higher than the fill neck, the radiator cap is useless as you'd dump coolant out when opening since it's not the highest point in the system, and you'd introduce a lot of air... not good!  Even if I'd have to run the Mk1 Rabbit LH radiator over the Scirocco with fill neck, one or the other of these is going to be about the best choice of all for our Samurai VW diesel swaps...

 

[Chuck78]

Not sure which application radiator this is, but it'll probably be on the S+P site listed under LH Top Fill

 

[cygnus x-1]

Scirocco has a fill neck and radiator cap on the radiator, and the left tank is tapered and widens at the top to accomodate the upper radiator hose being slightly inwards toward the center a little more than the lower.  Other than that, the dimensions are identical he says. 

I gotta say, in conjunction with his nice gasketed fan shrouds and high quality SPAL fans, these 2 LH version Mk1/Mk2 VW upgrade performance engine swap radiators are probably the single best thing we could get for our Samurai VW diesel swaps... 


My engine is getting pushed back by the way, so I'm pushing the radiator back to the rear portion of the Samurai stock steering box, as to leave room for intercoolers as well as to not block the bolts and adjustment screw on the top of the Samurai steering box. 

 
 

That filler cap is going to be a hood clearance problem if you try to put the rad in the standard Acme conversion location.  You might be ok since you're moving it back, but I think with most conversions that wouldn't work.  I know on mine it certainly wouldn't because there is no room to move the rad back.

C|

 

[wltrc]

I've got the acme rad and dual fans, haven't had any issues wheeling in the hot okanagan summers. Temp gauge has never crested 200f, verified with a laser thermometer. It hits 30 degrees Celsius here in may and by July it's 35-40 every day till October (think that's about 110-115 degrees Fahrenheit or so) 

However, I didn't like how close it sat to the timing cover so I redid the mounts and it sits almost straight up and down. Had to trim the hood a bit but now there's 4 or 5 inches between the fans and the timing cover so maybe that helps quite a bit. I also don't haul any weight when crawling so that probably helps too. No huge bumpers, jacks, winches. My buddy in the Jeep hauls all the heavies. 

 

[Chuck78]

That filler cap is going to be a hood clearance problem if you try to put the rad in the standard Acme conversion location.  You might be ok since you're moving it back, but I think with most conversions that wouldn't work.  I know on mine it certainly wouldn't because there is no room to move the rad back.

C|

It fits, but if shoving it up against the core support and directly above the removable access cover portion of the stock Samurai steering box, you will have to clearance the under hood bracing to get the fill neck and cap to fit, just like Suzuki did in the center for the OEM Samurai radiator.

I checked for where I'll be mounting mine with the ALH in a mandatory "shoved back as far as possible" Samurai swap position, and I'll have the radiator sitting 2+ inches behind the front core support area, starting directly behind the removable cover and adjustment screw for the OEM Samurai steering box, and sitting directly above the rear portion of the steering box housing. This leaves me more than 4 inches between the back of the radiator and the ALH timing cover.  Maybe more, I may have made an error measuring and could have been using the front of crank pulley/balancer figure as my measurement, can't recall.  
I'll be back out there tomorrow probably, taking more measurements and contemplating once again an FJ80 or later FJ60 steering box if I can shove it forward more so that the bottom of the pitman arm @ the steering box sector shaft is NOT directly above the high steer tie rod.  Otherwise for lower lift/ride height desires, the Toyota IFS 4x4 steering box  is the better route to go despite requiring removing most of the front left body mount up by the headlight. IF I decide to ditch the stock manual steering box. I really like the idea of skinny tires and manual steering, less parasitic drag and power loss, more simplistic...

 

[k1n3k]

So! I am wondering about a potential option to open up the ability to use a LOT more radiators with the VW surge tank. 

Apparently they make a non-relief type radiator cap that I was not aware of. It basically eliminates the lower relief portion of a radiator cap and only seals the top. This turns the vent that connects to the overflow bottle into a pressurized vent that then could be connected to the pressurized VW surge tank to allow air to escape to the high point of the system. I believe that some modern cars such as the Nissan 370z use this cap. If a cap can be found to fit some of the various radiators I've been looking at, that could be a game changer for radiator selection!

 

[Suzuki_dude]

So! I am wondering about a potential option to open up the ability to use a LOT more radiators with the VW surge tank.

Apparently they make a non-relief type radiator cap that I was not aware of. It basically eliminates the lower relief portion of a radiator cap and only seals the top. This turns the vent that connects to the overflow bottle into a pressurized vent that then could be connected to the pressurized VW surge tank to allow air to escape to the high point of the system. I believe that some modern cars such as the Nissan 370z use this cap. If a cap can be found to fit some of the various radiators I've been looking at, that could be a game changer for radiator selection!

 
I bought an aftermarket rad cap for my Sidekick. The cap they gave me is 1/4" shorter in the pressure relief part. Effectively not there. So that's what I've been using with the overflow hooked up the VW expansion tank. Exactly like what you're thinking. Works great. Closed system bleeds so much better. Just fill, run the engine and top up. Never get air trapped in.

 

[k1n3k]

I Finally settled on a radiator from a 1985 Toyota pickup with the 22r.

 

[Chuck78]

I finally settled on a radiator from a 1985 Toyota pickup with the 22R.

Why not the Land Rover Defender 300TDI radiator as you had praised it so much?
I see your custom 180 flipped coolant flange work there to make this type if radiatior fit without messy hose routing.
I was considering going Toyota IFS steering box to fit the Defender radiator and see if I could use it's built-in oil cooler as a heat exchanger for an air to water intercooler... Although I might just go with the VW radiatior choices I'd discussed heavily, and a separate larger air to water intercooler heat exchanger in the Samurai grill opening

 

[k1n3k]

Why not the Land Rover Defender 300TDI radiator as you had praised it so much?
I see your custom 180 flipped coolant flange work there to make this type if radiatior fit without messy hose routing.
I was considering going Toyota IFS steering box to fit the Defender radiator and see if I could use it's built-in oil cooler as a heat exchanger for an air to water intercooler... Although I might just go with the VW radiatior choices I'd discussed heavily, and a separate larger air to water intercooler heat exchanger in the Samurai grill opening

A few reasons, but namely this one is about 5" larger. 

A few of the things that motivated the change were primarily low speed cooling capacity. a larger frontal area will cool better at low airflows than that of a multi core radiator with a smaller frontal area. think of a single core radiator that has a 4 square foot area vs a 4 core radiator that has a 1 sq/ft area. Both will cool the same if 100 CFM of air is passed through them, but to get 100 cfm through the smaller radiator it has to be moving the air 4 times as fast as the larger one. while that airflow is not an issue at highway speeds, when rolling along at 5mph it is going to rely heavily on the fan to move the air, so therefore a larger radiator is going to be better for the application even with fewer cores.

Another thing as you noted was that it would avoid the coolant line being ran on the driver side of the vehicle. A bunch of equipment is going in over there as is, yet the passenger side was wide open, so it made sense.

parts availability was another consideration. If the 300tdi radiator got damaged while on the trail in a remote area, there are better chances of having someone be able to locate the pickup radiator. 

And lastly, going with the thinner but larger radiator allowed room to be left for an air conditioning condenser and intercooler radiator (air to water) in the future.

So there are a couple benefits. 



 

 

[Davidgylland]

I wanted to use a rad that fit between the frame rail and steering box so i used northern radiator 209661B kit. The kit comes with the wrong size inlet and out let . So i purchased the correct size ones of  Amazon. Local guy tig it up for me.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B014GXQ5QO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_i_AZ6WRBPFZEK24Z6NCKBW?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
I made a lower rad mount and using the factory rad mounting points. On the top I made a rad support that bolts to the upper support.
I also made a adapter that allows me change the direction of the output of the water pump and just cleans it up a little.