Is there a radiator that will fit close to the original Samurai Rad that will cool my 1.6L TD? I know this has been ask and answered before but after searching everything I can think of , I can't find it. I have a new 91 Jetta rad that came out of the doner car but as you know it is quite wide. It will take a lot of tin work or moving the steering box to get it to fit.
What radiator?
- Thread starter Estacada
- Start date
Spokerider
Well-known member
Do a search........this topic is WELL covered, and is one of the 1st basic questions guys ask........
In short......there is no direct replacement rad that I know of that works 100 percent. A tracker rad comes closest for direct fitment
As with anything non zuk.........fitting it into / onto your samurai will require mods.........and it's likely already been done by somebody else.
Research![[thumbsup]](https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png "Thumbs up [thumbsup]")
In short......there is no direct replacement rad that I know of that works 100 percent. A tracker rad comes closest for direct fitment
As with anything non zuk.........fitting it into / onto your samurai will require mods.........and it's likely already been done by somebody else.
Research
warren_bc
Well-known member
You can use the 1.6 Suzuki Sidekick Rad, or, some have gone Mustang. I myself, use a VW Quantum cross flow rad, with a 16 in electric fan. this way I use the radiator fan switch. It fits inside the fenders, is a cross flow, mine is an A/C radiator. I've had no problems keeping the temps in the green. Mine only cost 38 $ US, as well. I may buy another for that price, for a backup.
Thanks warren-bc That will give me a place to start.
Spokerider, What can I say? I searched for this information as I stated above but could not find the info that warren just gave me. I do know that there isn't a direct replacement but people have used various radiators that are closer in size to the original Samurai. I have a radiator that is close to the one Acme sells but they take up a LOT of room that could be used for other things.
Everyone has to start someplace and a lot of this info is hard to find!
Spokerider, What can I say? I searched for this information as I stated above but could not find the info that warren just gave me. I do know that there isn't a direct replacement but people have used various radiators that are closer in size to the original Samurai. I have a radiator that is close to the one Acme sells but they take up a LOT of room that could be used for other things.
Everyone has to start someplace and a lot of this info is hard to find!
Spokerider
Well-known member
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/1097763-samurai-radiator-upgrade.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/1054967-what-radiator-1-9-diesel-swap.html
https://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=133022.msg1307838#msg1307838
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=364858&page=3
http://bb.bc4x4.com/archive/index.php/t-53827.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzxtLLniJEM
http://zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=35722
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-36488.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/1054967-what-radiator-1-9-diesel-swap.html
https://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=133022.msg1307838#msg1307838
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=364858&page=3
http://bb.bc4x4.com/archive/index.php/t-53827.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzxtLLniJEM
http://zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=35722
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-36488.html
Spokerider, Thank you for the links,
Last night was one of those sleepless ones so I broke my personal rule of avoiding Google
( Google is NOT my friend - long story) and continued searching at 3AM. Everything sure works faster on the computer in the wee hours!
I did find the info on the pirate site and followed the link to the Acme tech info. I haven't been able to open the Acme tech info before but must be my old computer that has problems.
It looks like about every small radiator ever made has been used by someone! The most popular are the single pass rads used in VW's with the favorite being the one used in the VW Quantum ( sold in the US as the Passat). I think this is the same one that ACME
recommends. SO.. As soon as it quits snowing I will go down to the shop and do some measuring. The one I am looking at is 25" X 15.75 ( 635MM x 400MM )
Last night was one of those sleepless ones so I broke my personal rule of avoiding Google
( Google is NOT my friend - long story) and continued searching at 3AM. Everything sure works faster on the computer in the wee hours!
I did find the info on the pirate site and followed the link to the Acme tech info. I haven't been able to open the Acme tech info before but must be my old computer that has problems.
It looks like about every small radiator ever made has been used by someone! The most popular are the single pass rads used in VW's with the favorite being the one used in the VW Quantum ( sold in the US as the Passat). I think this is the same one that ACME
recommends. SO.. As soon as it quits snowing I will go down to the shop and do some measuring. The one I am looking at is 25" X 15.75 ( 635MM x 400MM )
Warren-bc, Where did you find VW Quantum radiator for $ 38 US?
I couldn't find anything listed for a VW Quantum until I did a search for the VW Quantum and learned it was sold in the US as the Passat [idea] . I guess VW thought "Quantum" was too much for us yanks!! The best price I have found so far is from Rockauto
at $73 plus shipping.
I couldn't find anything listed for a VW Quantum until I did a search for the VW Quantum and learned it was sold in the US as the Passat [idea] . I guess VW thought "Quantum" was too much for us yanks!! The best price I have found so far is from Rockauto
at $73 plus shipping.
Spokerider
Well-known member
Estacada date=1519422525 said:
Spokerider, I need to contact Acme and start putting together an order. I just need to decide on a transmission. I have been looking for a 2 wheel drive Sidekick or Tracker trans to replace the stock Samurai but haven't been able to find one yet. I may have to stay with the stock trans I have. Clackamas, Oregon home of ACME is only about 30 mi from me.
I plan to use the Samurai as a utility vehicle around the farm, as a hunting rig, and to explore the hundreds of miles of forest roads in this area. A lot of these roads aren't maintained well any longer. I am sure we will use it in the winter anytime it is snowing
I plan to use the Samurai as a utility vehicle around the farm, as a hunting rig, and to explore the hundreds of miles of forest roads in this area. A lot of these roads aren't maintained well any longer. I am sure we will use it in the winter anytime it is snowing
TD57
Well-known member
Ahh... forest roads, maintained or not, one of my favorites
It's getting harder to get on some as they are locking them up due to people dumping old appliances in the woods (they don't want to pay for the dump fee's).
Please for their sake, don't ever let me catch someone doing it.......
It's getting harder to get on some as they are locking them up due to people dumping old appliances in the woods (they don't want to pay for the dump fee's).
Please for their sake, don't ever let me catch someone doing it.......
Newfie-Zuk
Well-known member
Spokerider is correct , any of the VW diesel radiators will cool all the VW 4 cylinder diesels ... [approve] [approve]
Even the smaller VW models .. The key is getting it mounted in correctly so the flow isn't indirectly effected ...
Good flow = Good cooling ....
A good cooling fan maybe needed at times too .. However it is only really needed in slow moving and stop and go situations ... Any fast moving , highway use , a fan is rearly needed . It's all about the amount of air flowing across the radiator cooling fins ..
The most common overheating issues I notice comes down to the hose routing and the way the vehicle is plumbed ... Just keep the air out and the flow circulating , and your good to go ...
The other situation causing overheating in most off-roading vehicles , is the use of front mounted hardware ... Things like large bumper mounted lights , winches , even some bumpers and front brush guards ... All this mounted up front stops airflow , thus needing the use of high CFM fans ...
Just plumb it right , get the air out of the internal cooling fluid , and keep the airflow across the radiator ...
Your all good to Go !!
P
Even the smaller VW models .. The key is getting it mounted in correctly so the flow isn't indirectly effected ...
Good flow = Good cooling ....
A good cooling fan maybe needed at times too .. However it is only really needed in slow moving and stop and go situations ... Any fast moving , highway use , a fan is rearly needed . It's all about the amount of air flowing across the radiator cooling fins ..
The most common overheating issues I notice comes down to the hose routing and the way the vehicle is plumbed ... Just keep the air out and the flow circulating , and your good to go ...
The other situation causing overheating in most off-roading vehicles , is the use of front mounted hardware ... Things like large bumper mounted lights , winches , even some bumpers and front brush guards ... All this mounted up front stops airflow , thus needing the use of high CFM fans ...
Just plumb it right , get the air out of the internal cooling fluid , and keep the airflow across the radiator ...
Your all good to Go !!
P
Thanks Paul, I never seen an engine with so many hoses! With the pictures I took of the engine before I removed it from the Jetta, my Bailey's manual, and info on this site I should get it plumbed correctly.
Not much dumping around here most likely because we are about 40 mi away from Portland and it would take some work to take their junk to a place where they could dump without getting caught. The Forest Service has tried to limit public access in some areas but with over half of Oregon in "Public" land there still is a lot to explore, especially on the good side of the state!
Not much dumping around here most likely because we are about 40 mi away from Portland and it would take some work to take their junk to a place where they could dump without getting caught. The Forest Service has tried to limit public access in some areas but with over half of Oregon in "Public" land there still is a lot to explore, especially on the good side of the state!
warren_bc
Well-known member
Update. Might just be my luck, or a bad rad. But i upgraded. Tried to make a trip east a couple weeks back and boom. Turbo line started leaking and I slightly bumped the upper rad hose couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that the upper rad hose was sheared off just in front of the hose clamp. So, back in the shop. Doing the clutch too. Rear main seal. Lovely. Goi g down to a 180* thermostat too.
Attachments
Spokerider
Well-known member
Clamped too tightly for too long?
Chuck78
Well-known member
I have been browsing aluminum radiators on ebay, and a lof of the old Willy's radiators from the 40's through 1960-ish look promising, but most have a funky hose connection with a 30 or 40 degree bend in one and the other being angled... There was one model that I only saw in a $379 version that had straight hose connections on it.
There were a few VW aluminum radiators that would work really well if mounted upside-down/backwards so the hoses are both driver's side, as others have used this.
From measuring my engine bay, headlight/fender area, in between frame rails and steering box, etc, I determined the following:
*****The largest cooling area could be obtained with a 20x20 radiator, maximum outside dimensions including to top of cap/neck. This is ideal, and is going to be mostly pretty well exposed to the airstream minus a big winch blocking some. This will sit down all the way in between the pass. frame rail and the steering gearbox, and sit just above the steering stabilizer frame side mount. Relocating (or trimming and bracing) that stabilizer mount could gain a slight bit of height capacity.
****If the radiator is over 22" wide, it really needs to be a max of 12" tall or so if it's going to sit above the frame rails. A 26x12 up to 32x12 would work out if sitting above steering box and frame rails. This can give you the 2nd largest cooling surface area.
***22" or narrower width and up to 17" tall including cap/neck was the absolute max that I measured from the pass. side frame rail over to the stock steering box if looking for a medium - tall radiator. I can't recall exactly where on the passenger side I was measuring from here... but the dimensions are accurate as far as size capacity.
The stock radiator is 15 wide 18 tall. The core is 15x14. A high performance aluminum version will still have hose connections not on the good side for a VW diesel swap. That is why the newer VW application with both on the passenger side (then flipped180 degrees clockwise or counterclockwise end over end to have both on the driver's side) will likely be the best bet.
Or ACME's top choice of the 83 Quantum turbodiesel radiator. I have yet to find an all-aluminum version of this however, they are scarce even in the plastic tank epoxied to aluminum core cheaper versions that are available still.
20x20 best (height including to top of radiator cap/neck, cap location may require trimming under-hood bracing)
then
Being able to expertly TIG weld aluminum or having it professionally done would open up a lot of great possibilities as far as modifying a good sized radiator to have the hose connections appropriately placed... I am not ruling this option out either!
If going with a VW late model aluminum radiator flipped upside down, Land Rover TDI's have available a nice looking aluminum coolant overflow/reservoir tank (probably from China!) on ebay...
There were a few VW aluminum radiators that would work really well if mounted upside-down/backwards so the hoses are both driver's side, as others have used this.
From measuring my engine bay, headlight/fender area, in between frame rails and steering box, etc, I determined the following:
*****The largest cooling area could be obtained with a 20x20 radiator, maximum outside dimensions including to top of cap/neck. This is ideal, and is going to be mostly pretty well exposed to the airstream minus a big winch blocking some. This will sit down all the way in between the pass. frame rail and the steering gearbox, and sit just above the steering stabilizer frame side mount. Relocating (or trimming and bracing) that stabilizer mount could gain a slight bit of height capacity.
****If the radiator is over 22" wide, it really needs to be a max of 12" tall or so if it's going to sit above the frame rails. A 26x12 up to 32x12 would work out if sitting above steering box and frame rails. This can give you the 2nd largest cooling surface area.
***22" or narrower width and up to 17" tall including cap/neck was the absolute max that I measured from the pass. side frame rail over to the stock steering box if looking for a medium - tall radiator. I can't recall exactly where on the passenger side I was measuring from here... but the dimensions are accurate as far as size capacity.
The stock radiator is 15 wide 18 tall. The core is 15x14. A high performance aluminum version will still have hose connections not on the good side for a VW diesel swap. That is why the newer VW application with both on the passenger side (then flipped180 degrees clockwise or counterclockwise end over end to have both on the driver's side) will likely be the best bet.
Or ACME's top choice of the 83 Quantum turbodiesel radiator. I have yet to find an all-aluminum version of this however, they are scarce even in the plastic tank epoxied to aluminum core cheaper versions that are available still.
20x20 best (height including to top of radiator cap/neck, cap location may require trimming under-hood bracing)
then
Being able to expertly TIG weld aluminum or having it professionally done would open up a lot of great possibilities as far as modifying a good sized radiator to have the hose connections appropriately placed... I am not ruling this option out either!
If going with a VW late model aluminum radiator flipped upside down, Land Rover TDI's have available a nice looking aluminum coolant overflow/reservoir tank (probably from China!) on ebay...
Chuck78
Well-known member
This style in general, flipped upside-down for hoses on driver's side, was what I was thinking. I'll have to double check on the 12" guesstimation spec...
310mm x 524mm (12.2" tall x 20.6" wide would be good for a TDI)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ROW-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-VW-GOLF-GTI-JETTA-MK2-Corrado-Scirocco-Coupe-1-8V-86-95/251303341144
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Radiator-for-VW-GOLF-GTI-JETTA-MK2-Corrado-Scirocco-Coupe-1-8V-86-95/201485961017
or 28"W x 12.5" tall if this could fit height-wise over the steering gearbox and under the hood, this would provide the most cooling and have the hoses in a preferential destination:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Radiator-for-VW-Jetta-Golf-Mk3-1993-1999-1-8L-2-0L-4cyl-MT-1995-96/222646634103
This may be the best all aluminum option if 12.5" will clear between the steering gearbox and the hood bracing... or trimming the hood bracing even.
There was still yet another VW/Audi application that I saw that I recall seeming far better in size, but I only could find $300 versions of them... and this was before I measured under my hood to get the dimensions I was targeting, so perhaps it would not be such a good fit, but perhaps it would...
There are Jeep Cherokee radiators 36x12 but that would nearly span from the center of one headlight to the other...
Here are some of the WIlly's and Willy's Jeep options I saw:
This one was darn near textbook perfect except for the upper hose connection being dead center. The bottom cutout notch even corresponds nearby the Samurai steering stabilizer mount! Some TIG work to relocate the upper hose connection? available hoses to figure out the maze/puzzle will have a lot to do with 20" wide vs 26" or so wide options. Acme has it figured out with the hoses for the Quantum radiator they recommend and sell.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Row-Radiator-For-51-53-Willys/181779316780
or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Row-Western-Champion-Radiator-W-12-Fan-for-1951-1952-1953-Willys/202569353623
Running one like this could be great as it would leave some extra room to the driver's side grill opening above the steering gearbox to fit an intercooler with direct airflow to it, but it is on the wrong side of the engine for the intake piping, so things would get cluttered if trying to plumb that up. This core size is going to give the largest cooling area possible for considering being exposed to the direct airflow through the grill opening at least.
Or possibly some TIG welding work on one of this style of Willy's Jeep aftermarket aluminum radiator, the hose connections are in the best place they could be for this width of radiator, but the funky bends on the stubs is odd and may need chopped/TIG'd? If plumbing to this location is far enough to the driver's side with available hoses... I think it is, but the diesel injection pump hangs off the left side of the engine and may complicate things???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Radiator-For-1941-1952-Jeep-Willys-M38-CJ-2A-MB-42-43-44-45-46-47-50/322792012559
(Lower hose 1-3/4" though)
310mm x 524mm (12.2" tall x 20.6" wide would be good for a TDI)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ROW-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-VW-GOLF-GTI-JETTA-MK2-Corrado-Scirocco-Coupe-1-8V-86-95/251303341144
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Radiator-for-VW-GOLF-GTI-JETTA-MK2-Corrado-Scirocco-Coupe-1-8V-86-95/201485961017
or 28"W x 12.5" tall if this could fit height-wise over the steering gearbox and under the hood, this would provide the most cooling and have the hoses in a preferential destination:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Radiator-for-VW-Jetta-Golf-Mk3-1993-1999-1-8L-2-0L-4cyl-MT-1995-96/222646634103
This may be the best all aluminum option if 12.5" will clear between the steering gearbox and the hood bracing... or trimming the hood bracing even.
There was still yet another VW/Audi application that I saw that I recall seeming far better in size, but I only could find $300 versions of them... and this was before I measured under my hood to get the dimensions I was targeting, so perhaps it would not be such a good fit, but perhaps it would...
There are Jeep Cherokee radiators 36x12 but that would nearly span from the center of one headlight to the other...
Here are some of the WIlly's and Willy's Jeep options I saw:
This one was darn near textbook perfect except for the upper hose connection being dead center. The bottom cutout notch even corresponds nearby the Samurai steering stabilizer mount! Some TIG work to relocate the upper hose connection? available hoses to figure out the maze/puzzle will have a lot to do with 20" wide vs 26" or so wide options. Acme has it figured out with the hoses for the Quantum radiator they recommend and sell.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Row-Radiator-For-51-53-Willys/181779316780
or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Row-Western-Champion-Radiator-W-12-Fan-for-1951-1952-1953-Willys/202569353623
Running one like this could be great as it would leave some extra room to the driver's side grill opening above the steering gearbox to fit an intercooler with direct airflow to it, but it is on the wrong side of the engine for the intake piping, so things would get cluttered if trying to plumb that up. This core size is going to give the largest cooling area possible for considering being exposed to the direct airflow through the grill opening at least.
Or possibly some TIG welding work on one of this style of Willy's Jeep aftermarket aluminum radiator, the hose connections are in the best place they could be for this width of radiator, but the funky bends on the stubs is odd and may need chopped/TIG'd? If plumbing to this location is far enough to the driver's side with available hoses... I think it is, but the diesel injection pump hangs off the left side of the engine and may complicate things???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Radiator-For-1941-1952-Jeep-Willys-M38-CJ-2A-MB-42-43-44-45-46-47-50/322792012559
My concern at the moment as well ,just placed the motor and still havnt pulled the pin on a rad .
Your measurments are close even for my set up which has the tracker psb , I was thinking of the old 302 mustang rad but not sure now as diesel zuk tried it and decided to pull it in favor of something else . I think the darn thing thing anyway I look at it new in allunimin will cost at least 400 can which means I need to get it right the first time . I like the efficiency of a cross flow but cannot find one in a small size that would fit between the frame and psb.
Your measurments are close even for my set up which has the tracker psb , I was thinking of the old 302 mustang rad but not sure now as diesel zuk tried it and decided to pull it in favor of something else . I think the darn thing thing anyway I look at it new in allunimin will cost at least 400 can which means I need to get it right the first time . I like the efficiency of a cross flow but cannot find one in a small size that would fit between the frame and psb.
Here's one out of a 93 passat its 27 wide 15 high ,havnt tried the hood but my guess is it will not close. The rad is about 1 inch wider than the frame rails if it was 26 wide I could drop another 1 inch before it contacted the psb and it would fit between the headlight frames on the bottom giving me even more hood clearance due to being able to angle it a little more
