Supergrunt! - Turbo Diesel Build.

It definitely isn't oil as the vapor is seriously eye watering and smells of extremely strong diesel. it also wouldn't explain why it disappears if I advance the timing a few degrees. For the moment I have pure water in the block for leak tests before I drain it and fill it with 50/50. This smoke lingers way too long to be water vapor and again it disappears if i advance the timing. It's really bugging me I cant wait to clock out and check those glow plugs. I may just need to test drive it and break it in before worrying too much about it.
 
diabolical1 date=1429537809 said:
So, I've got issues. and questions

After having issues I did a compression test of all 4 cylinders and got an even 400 psi across the board which is surprisingly low to me.. no?. checked timing and it's dead nuts accurate in conjunction with the crank and cam, yet when I time my Giles pump to the recommended .95mm the engine runs with a lot of white smoke and sputters and shakes.

I loosened the bolts and advanced the pump and the engine smoothed out and the smoke ceased.. locked the pump where it ran best then checked timing.. 1.2mm

do these engines run like S*** until the ring's are seated? or do I have bigger problems?

Only factors I can think of are that I am assuming my brand new glow plugs all work (will pull each and check tonight) and I dont know if I have actually gotten the engine up to operating temp. I let it run for 5 minutes and the issue didn't seem to improve when timing was set at .95mm.  I'm waiting on an adapter to put a mechanical water temp sender in the upper rad hose. since i don't know what temp the engine is at i don't want to run it much longer than that.

I'm really hoping I have a bad glow plug or two. or to hear that these engines puff a bit of white smoke when first ran. to mu understanding white smoke is purely unburnt fuel and that doesn't sound good to me
Click to expand...
That compression is a little low , 400psi , HHHMMM  ?  The limit is 398psi if I remember correctly  , and she should have about 490psi new ... However I wouldn't be to concerned ,( providing all the numbers match )  because I have also seen it before ... Remember it's new , and the rings will have to wear and seat into the cylinder walls ... Wear-in  can take a while , and is the main reason  synthetic oil is NOT recommended on new rebuilds  ... Do not add any detergents , or any additives either , or they may never seat ... It can take up to 8000 kilometers sometimes for full wear in to take place ... After which time you will see higher compression , little to no oil loss , and better fuel economy  , along with an increase in over all engine  power ... [approve] [approve] 

The white smoke , shuttering and sputters , sounds like Injection Pump Timing to me .. Retarded pump timing will cause white smoke ... Sounds like your issue too , since you mentioned it wasn't as bad when you advanced it ... I can't say what Giles recommends  for his pumps but I personally set all of mine 1.00mm across the board , turbo or not , 1.5 , 1.6 , 1.9  etc. , all of them ... :)  

White smoke in a diesel can also be an indication of  water in fuel too ??  Or a sticky injector ?? Or as you mentioned , even a faulty glow plug or two ... two at the most , because most VW diesels  will  never start cold on less than two glow plugs  .... ;)

Personally if you want my opinion :  " Ask what Giles what he recommends for pump timing , or set it to the 1.00mm ...  Check your glow plugs to be sure there all working ..  get your coolant gauge working  so you know your engine coolant  temperature .... Then drive it ... "  I would say after a few good runs you will see a big  improvement !!   .... Remember some smoke & oil consumption , are normal on most rebuilds ... "    [thumbsup]

Keep it cool , and full of oil , and should be safe ... VVVRRRROOOOOOMMM !! ;D ;D

P

 
 
All 4 glow plugs work perfectly. I may be calling up Giles tonight about this injector pump because there is something critically wrong with the calibration or something. 
After testing the glow plugs I start and ran the engine again at Giles recommended .95mm setting with its typical white smoke and backfiring. At that point I got desperate and got some wood clamps to hold the timing belt to the cam sprocket and crank sprocket while I loosened the tensioner. I left the injector pump where it was at .95 but advanced the injector pump sprocket one tooth clockwise (clearly off the timing mark see pic below) I then start it up. It ran fine like this! I stop the engine put the dial indicator in the back of the pump go through the procedure to check the timing and its smack dab at 1.2mm which is where I said it was running best at when I was manually advancing the injector pump in my previous post..  This s*** is seriously stressing me out. How can this engine be happy running like this???
 
 
Your dial is reading the cam plate settings inside the pump ... The internal cam plate works in the same manner as a camshaft in the engine ..  The plate allows the opening and closing of the fuel injection guide pin , and it's correlation to each injector .... If you have the pin locked into the front pulley , the notch on the inside shield should align with your timing gear mark   ... Once this is done , then commence your dynamic timing , as I mentioned before I set mine to 1.00 mm .... ;)

The first thing which comes to mind to cause your issue is the cold start lever ??  Do you have this pushed fully towards the front of the pump ??  If you do not have this pushed fully forward , it will give your dial an advanced reading , much like you say your getting ... Since the lever is advancing your fuel guide pin internally through the timing piston ( static timing ) ...  Make sure your cold start lever is pushed fully in , before you commence your timing . ;)

P

 
Yea i know what timing the pump means, the cold start lever is off, pushed down toward the radiator. It has to be the pump. The flywheel is lined up with the mark on the bell housing and the cam locking plate slides right in. so i know according to the mark on the flywheel the crank and cam are timed perfectly. but the pump is the only thing when aligned perfectly wont allow the engine to run correctly.  as i showed in the picture the engine wont run correctly unless advanced to 1.2mm via either  tilting the pump or advancing the sprocket. I'm thinking they might of calibrated it for the wrong engine accidentally. 
 
Ok so your cold start if off ,  as you said it should be pushed towards the front of the pump , last index notch ..  So your good there ...  ;) 

How are you setting your pump timing ?? That notch on your injection pump is to be aligned with the bead on the timing shield ( behind it ) , The Pulley DO NOT MOVE , your pump is what you are to be shifting , and the lock pin will keep your pulley in place ...   Lock your camshaft ( engine ) , set your crank to it's TDC line , and Then the lock pin in the pump ... Once all these are aligned , remove the tools , and rotate your engine by hand two revolutions ... Again insert all the tools and marks , if everything is aligned correctly , then commence your pumps dynamic timing ...   

I think what is happening ,  is your advancing the pump to get a smooth idle when the engine is cold ... If you go back and set the pump's timing to the 1.00mm , then correctly attach your cold start lever cable you will be ok ... I say this because when the cold start is functioning your advancing the pump's timing approx. 2-3 mm , this is where you are now ( in relation to correct settings ) ...  You need the cold start functioning when first started on a lot of the VW's , especially  some rebuilds , it just aids in starting ... Once the engine reaches it's operating temperature , the cold start advance will need to be pushed back in , because once warm the internal dynamic s of the pump fully take over allowing the engine to operate smoothly ......   ;)
 
You may be right I may just need to run it with the cold start lever engaged then until warmed up or broken in or whatever.  I intentionally misaligned the pulley in that picture to show there the engine liked to run, I know the proper way to advance the timing is to tilt the pump. Perhaps doing what i did was equivalent to permanently pulling the cold start lever. I'm going to put the pulley back on its mark tonight time it to the .95 Giles states to use and pull the cold start lever to see where the timing ends up when advanced. if its around 1.2mm I think we may be onto something. The adapter for my water temp sensor isn't here yet and it's driving me crazy not knowing if the engine is actually warm or not.  All i know is the upper radiator hose has gotten pretty warm to the touch but the lower hasn't. That indicates to me its either not hot enough to open the thermostat or i have an air bubble. 
 
diabolical1 date=1429622516 said:
You may be right I may just need to run it with the cold start lever engaged then until warmed up or broken in or whatever.  I intentionally misaligned the pulley in that picture to show there the engine liked to run, I know the proper way to advance the timing is to tilt the pump. Perhaps doing what i did was equivalent to permanently pulling the cold start lever. I'm going to put the pulley back on its mark tonight time it to the .95 Giles states to use and pull the cold start lever to see where the timing ends up when advanced. if its around 1.2mm I think we may be onto something. The adapter for my water temp sensor isn't here yet and it's driving me crazy not knowing if the engine is actually warm or not.  All i know is the upper radiator hose has gotten pretty warm to the touch but the lower hasn't. That indicates to me its either not hot enough to open the thermostat or i have an air bubble.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good plan Keith ...  let us know how you make out .... [thumbsup]

I believe you mentioned earlier , that you mounted the radiator in upside down correct ??  It will not effect it's functioning , or coolant flow , no worries there ... But the air bubble ??  That is a good possibility and very likely in the VW coolant system ... Tip : be sure to fill the radiator  with coolant though the top hose inlet ( use a hose and funnel ) , and fill the engine block through the top radiator hose , then quickly connect both ... It helps to alleviate the air being tapped in the upper coolant chambers ... If you done so already , please forgive me for mentioning it ... ;D ;D  !! 

Do you have a laser temp gun ??  I have monitored engine start ups with these too ... Just use the top coolant outlet for a reference point , works great .. ;)

P 

 
I had a Eureka moment last night that will leave everyone thinking I?m an idiot, more on that after these details...

1. My rad hose adapter showed up yesterday for the coolant temp sensor.
2. This whole time I've been nowhere near operating temperatures. More like 100 degrees F (37 Celsius) - I underestimated how long these diesels take to get warm.
3. Although it ran rough it smoothed out a lot at operating temp, but still a bit rough unless I advanced the timing with the cold start lever. I realized if i gave it some throttle around 2000 rpm (im guessing as my awesome tach hasnt showed up) it would overcome a stumbling point.. Something to do with the mechanical advance I'm guessing, at that point it wouldn't miss or stubble anymore and run perfectly.. Backing the throttle off below that point the stumbling would reoccur.

Now that eureka moment I had before bed last night. After pumping the gas out through the feed line with a marine style check valve bulb, I completely forgot to drain the tank via the plug in the bottom! DOH! My bet is there was still gas left that the pickup couldn't reach. And considering I only filled the tank with approximately 2-3 gallons of diesel. it wouldn't take much to dilute it enough to cause problems.  I hope I didn't cause any damage.
 
On a side note..  After some research on the issue a few minutes ago however, on the Volvo 240d, which is basically a 1.6d with 2 more cylinders, a guy stated that his owner?s manual said in emergency situations it?s acceptable to run a maximum of 20% gasoline to get home.

I either have 2 options. Fill the tank all the way up and hope that improved ratio helps out or drain the tank and purge the lines and empty the filter and start over new, I'm leaning towards draining the tank.
 
Pulling the cold start ( advance ) cable until the engine reaches operating temperature is fine ... Pretty normal with all the VW diesels with this option , especially on cool or colder start ups .. ;) 

Personally ,  I would just fill up the fuel tank with diesel fuel . That small amount of gasoline will not  harm the VW diesel at all .. I have on many occasions mixed gasoline with Diesel or WVO ... They call regular unleaded gasoline "RUG" on most of the bio-forums ...  ;)

During the cold winter months years ago  , Mixing 20% to 30% gas with diesel  , was the norm when I was living  further north in Labrador ... Even now if I am planning winter trip and take extra bio-fuel with me , during the winter months I will add 20% gas if the temperatures are expected to be really cold .. It just lowers the flash point making for easier cold starts if the engine has been sitting for long durations not running .. :)

Dead gasoline is another item I have burned in my diesel VW's ... just last spring I had 40 gals of dead gasoline removed from a friends pleasure craft , which had been in storage for 3 years ... I mixed the gas with 60% WVO , burned it all in my daily driver ... Never missed a beat !! [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

P
 
Yes in the VW owners manual for my golf. It says in winter months to mix %20 gas. That was the norm for the old mechanical engines. Once you get it set it will run on just about anything combustible, but will run a little ruff until they are up to temperature. The golf on cold morning will buck it's brains out at low rpm's, but keep a bit of fuel to her and she is a smooth as could be.
 
This engine reminds me of the Mr Fusion scene from back to the future!  ;D
 

Attachments

  • e10a18f2ba1da25cb4e194c39f377351.webp
    e10a18f2ba1da25cb4e194c39f377351.webp
    9.6 KB · Views: 382
Back to the future is the best!

I haven?t had much time to mess with the Samurai lately, but I did get the turbo rebuilt and the new waste gate actuator on? after having to do some modifications to the valve.  The picture description showed the correct valve diameter but it came with a valve not even large enough to seal the hole which defeats the purpose. Cut the old valve off and welded it in place of the new, because this new gate is made out of material thicker than the old one and there was no opening it without destroying it.  Got everything as true as I could, it?ll have to work.

Next step is to fab the exhaust. or do wiring.










 
I have ordered this same waste-gate Keith , never had an issue with the valve sealing ... Man , Talk about  bad luck  ! That's Sad  ! :(

The Turbo looks great , you have everything nice and clean too !   Nice ... [thumbsup]

P
 
I think this these are better pictures to show what the difference in size was. The little gate was fitting inside the port.. My luck. As I mentioned earlier, almost everything that could go wrong has gone wrong with this build. It?s annoying. But I?m determined.





On a side note since I'm doing a side exit exhaust on this thing I got to looking at the fuel tank and it looks like if I fabricate a tank to replace the current one that also extends into the stock exhaust pipe area i could fit quite a large tank. according to my measurements and at 32.75" long x 16" deep x 12.5" tall that equals 6550 cubic inches which is equivalent to = 28.35 gallons (107.31642 liters)  If i were to get 35mpg thats approximately 1000 miles on a tank of gas which is excessive, but perfect for cross country traveling, camping remotely.. etc etc..
 
Wow !! that is a big difference isn't it !!  That valve is much smaller .... :o 

If your planning on going out the side  , you could always incorporate the exhaust through your side bars ... I have seen that done before too ... It looks kinda cool to see the exhaust coming from the rock bars , or side steps on a lifted vehicle .. ;)

The idea of a larger fuel tank sounds excellent also ! I really like that idea ... [thumbsup]
 
Not much progress has been happening lately, I've only had the time to cross off on average 1 small task a day.
I did manage to get my two 12" radiator fans mounted. since this picture I have also wired them in.

I fabricated the down pipe and since this picture has been taken I've finish welded it. It still needs my roll of DEI "titanium" exhaust wrap on it. I'm also going to bend up some heat shields and use their gold reflective tape on the shields to protect the heater lines and fuel filter. If i have some left over i may even use it on the bell housing area to keep the transmission cooler.


Lastly, After nearly 2 months of waiting my custom GPS Speedometer and matching diesel tach have arrived! I'm making a custom aluminum dash so these will only be mounted temporarily until then.. along with the boost gauge water temp and oil pressure.  I opted for 80 MPH gauge face.. seems more appropriate for the rig. and on the tach I had the tick marks changed from the standard oddball 200RPM increments to 250RPM increments.


]Here's a nice demonstration video for the GPS speedo.
https://youtu.be/GgHV3v7ZYDM


[font=helvetica, arial, lucida grande, sans-serif][/font]
 

https://www.helpavetshine.us/help-a-vet-shine
Top Bottom