How to install an electric "blower" fan...

Zuki-murai

Zuki-murai

Well-known member
last Wknd i made a mod to my suk in order to get a couple of extras HP .

I found a wrecked 81 volvo so the idea of a electric fan come to my mind. and guees what?? The both blower fans still work after all that time. i just painted one of them and welded on mi zuk, oh and dont forgot to use o lil of WD-40,

first we have to remove the stock fan, just remove the 4 nut around the fan base, pull it an ready...
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Then u have to remove the radiator, thats simple, just remove the hoses and the bolts that holds the radiator and thats all, ohh dont forget to drain the water  ::).

now we have to see where is the better position for the fan, go and measure the radiator and the fan to see if it fits ok.
this is the position for my fan...
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now i cut a couple of metal pieces just to weld the fan

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once you have all in position its time for welding.... this is my first time welding so i accept criticism

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thats all. IT REALLY REALLY BLOWS


i drove around the city and this was the top temp. (at the bottom of the pic is where i placed the switch)
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and that how my suz looks like
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;D   ;D







 
YEP!

it didnt turn into a HP monster but yes, it feels little diferent and coul be the diference between reach the top or dont make it. :-X
 
I did that install last fall, and i could tell a temperature difference, I havent however removed the stock fan to see any gain in hp.  Your welded brakets look a lot better than the twenty zip ties i used to hold mine in.  Did you put in a fused link in the wiring to prevent shorts?  Like three bucks at the auto parts store, works wonders.

Caleb
Que pasa, que trabajo tu por un vida?
sorry a little rusty.
 
Warpig said:
Caleb
Que pasa, que trabajo tu por un vida?
sorry a little rusty.
Click to expand...

Ties?? :o  :o thats more freak than my weldings jejejeje
mmmm yes i need to install a fuse and also change my wire size (how can i forgot to install a fuse [worried])

whats  ?
Que pasa, que trabajo tu por un vida?


that mean
whats up, what job you for a life   
jejeje
yep...lil rusty, but i can help you

caleb

 
De donde cerca de tu, es las llomas de arena.  

That last n should have a tilde but i dont know how to make one.  You ever wheel in el parque de Big Bend, cerca de la ciudad de Lajitas?

Caleb
El Jefe Jovenes
 
I think there is a little flaw in your reasoning. The stock fan has a clutch so it only takes as much power as it needs to cool the engine. The electric fan has to have a source of energy to cool the engine so it gets that energy from the alternator. Doesn't matter where it comes from, it takes energy from somewhere to do the cooling (-:

Jim
 
thats true, it have to take energy from somewhere, but i like to dive so the stock fan doesnt help me on any way,  the  best thing to do is an alt swap, to compensate the power from the battery
 
a higher output alternator would make the fan's draw on it so minute it would hardly matter...The engine spins the alt the same speed, but you get 2-3x the power output from it. Plus you could power a big winch, stereo, and mini-fridge at the same time with some of the new GM alts ;D
 
Within certain limits the amount of energy needed to move large amounts of air through the radiator will be the same no matter what energy source you use. In the situation we are discussing there are two possible sources of that energy. One is mechanical energy transmitted by the fan belt the other is the electrical energy created by the alternator and converted to mechanical energy by the electric motor driving the fan. Pretty much the same amount of power taken from the mighty Sammi engine either way (-:

Jim 
 
the fan has a  fan clutch but I don?t like the way it works, you still seeing the fan working on a cold morning don?t you? It should not be spinning IMHO(just like new cars) any way, when I get in on deep water the fan can act as a propel, I heard some cases of ripped radiators by the fan when crossing deep waters don?t know if its true, just what I heard, so with the electric one I just turn it off cause I don?t need it plus I get a couple of hp, and works (still) very good on the sand dunes where is xtremely hot, my fan spins very fast but I feel a lack of energy when I turn it on, I can see the engine revs going just a bit down, thats why I want a gm alt to compensate the lost of power.
Also want the mini fridge  ;D

sorry about grammar
 
The HP gain in using an electric fan comes from the fan always drawing the same amount of power all the time it is running. 

When you have a mechanical fan it spins at the speed of the engine.  So when you  have your engine at really high revs you have to spin the fan that fast also, and when you are reving it up you also have to rev up the weight of the fan and clutch.

 
That sounds good although in the case of the Samurai it is not true.  The fan has a thermostat controlled clutch. When the air passing through the radiator is cold the fan is just windmilling taking virtually no energy from the engine. When the air gets hotter the clutch begins to apply more power to the fan. When the air gets hotter than the water thermostat the fan is at a nearly 1 to 1 with engine speed. This type of fan clutch has been in use for many years on many different vehicles. If you try turning the fan blades on your vehicle by hand with the engine shut off and you are easily able to turn the fan you have a thermostat controlled fan clutch. Or your fan belt is REALLY loose (-:

Jim
 
Zuki-murai said:
thats why I want a gm alt to compensate the lost of power.
Click to expand...

The GM alternator doesn't compensate for lost power.  It will consume almost exactly the same amount of energy from the engine as the stock Sammi alternator.  Like the clutch idea on the fan, the alternator gets a signal from the voltage regulator to produce more or less electrical power.  The only differences I can account for would be small; like maybe one alternator sucks more air through for cooling than another, maybe one alternator uses larger wires and has less loss to resistance.  And in a case like that I 'expect' it would only show up as a difference if you were running the alternator at maximum current.  There might be a measureable difference in that situation.

Regarding the fan...  my thoughts are that the major savings with an electrical fan is that it is only running when it is required for cooling.  The mechanical, while maybe it doesn't run all the time, I believe runs when not needed, like at freeway speeds.  Heat is being dumped via the radiator, and the clutch is hot, the fan is turning, but the volume of air forced through the radaitor by the speed you are traveling may be (probably is) more than adequate for cooling.  One could say that in that case the fan is freewheeling in that moving air.  Yeah, maybe.. but intuitively, mentally comparing the speed of air moved by the fan versus that from driving... it seems to me the fan moves it faster.  But that is VERY subjective and I certainly could be waaay off base.  However, that is the justification I have read when the Big Boys make a conversion like this for better MPG.  But who can say without empirical evidence?
 
Race cars use electric... uh... damn near everything. Electric is more efficient than mechanical.

Other than a Volvo fan - has anyone used other fans for their Samurai? Anyone used a bigger radiator?

~J~
 
Hey Jeremiah!

> has anyone used other fans for their Samurai?

I use a Zuke A/C fan for mine.  Fits perfect in front of the radiator.  I have heard of folks using quite a variety of other fans.  I didn't pay much attention because the big deal is just getting one that fits properly.  There has been some discussion about the best way to mount a fan, and power it (via a relay and maybe a electronic thermostat switch)

> Anyone used a bigger radiator?

I have heard of folks using different radiators.  I think the Sidekick/Tracker was mentioned.

I have a 3-row radiator, built on a Zuke radiator frame so it bolts right up.  It is only a little bit thicker than a 2-row in my case.  I believe most radiator shops can do this on any Zuke radiator.

Are you having over-heating problems?  Just on slow trails?

> Electric is more efficient than mechanical

I don't believe this is the case at all.  But it depends on how you define 'efficient'.  There is energy loss when you generate electricity, when you store it, when you send it down a wire and when you use it.  For practical purposes, in automotive use, I guess you can fergit storing it cuz your alternator will generate the extra juice you need when you need it.

Compare to a stock fan.  It loses energy in the fan/pulley arrangement.  It loses energy to the bearings when the fan spins (argueably the electric fan does too).  Yes, the fan spins faster than an electrical, so for a head-to-head compare in a lab you would have to consider this, as you would want apples vs apples.

Folks try to save energy using electric fans because they only run when needed, if you have a thermostat control.  They don't rev up way high, at high rpm the parasitic drag increases exponentially on the stock fan creating significant energy loss.  But note that this is not an apples vs apples compare.  To use the same type fan to move a given amount of air during the same time period, the electric fan probably would edge-out the stock, until you add in the losses I described earlier; loss in the alternator (resistance heat, alternator cooling fan energy, bearing friction), in the wires (resistance heat), in the fan motor, etc.

All of this is true for utility power generation and distribution.  For large scale distribution like PG&E, I believe they claim up to 40% line loss.  Or is that over-all?  Don't recall, and I got an 'A' in that class.  :-(  Then there is some additional loss when you use the electricity in your home.

Sometimes with engine bay changes, an electric fan become an attractive option because it doesn't have to be bolted to the front of the engine.  If you have moved the engine to a new location you can generally bolt an electric fan to the radiator to make things cool.

Didactically yours
GeoB
 
I'm having overheating problems myself - my Samurai SLOWLY gets too hot. For 10-15 min runs it's fine, but much longer, and I have to pull over :( Sometimes I can run the heater, and get another 5-10 min out of the run. But, being summer time I don't need more heat ;) I replaced the thermostat, and the timing is fine. So - that leaves my radiator, or water pump. Not shure how to diagnose any further other than replace one and see if it fixes the problem.

As far as effiency... I still prefer electric, and here's why:
Yes, clutch fans will "self-regulate", but they're still less efficient. More often than not, when you need the fan running is when the car is stopped, or doing less than 15MPH. So - when the engine is turning it's slowest (stop and go traffic, or stop lights etc) is when the engine needs the fan the most. Since your enfine is turning slowly, so is the clutch fan. Furthermore, a clutch fan has no idea if your AC is on or not... and I plan on getting AC soon.

An electric fan operates independantly from engine speed, so when the truck needs air the most, it can kick on full blast, and keep the little sami cool. Also, it can be hooked to the AC, and turn on when the AC needs air too.

The clutch fan is sufficient - it'll do just fine, so I don't recommend replacing the clutch fan until it fails. But, when it comes replacement time... I'm going electric. Hopefully I can find a fan that will work from a pick-and-pull, as the fans only cost $15  :)


~J~
 
Jeremiah said:
Hopefully I can find a fan that will work from a pick-and-pull, as the fans only cost $15  :)
Click to expand...

Think I saw a hunert fans there that looked like they would fit.

I agree with all you said about the electric fan.  I guess I just thought 'efficient' wasn't the word I would have chosen to describe those advantages.  :-)  But who cares?  Lets go wheelin'!

GeoB
 
Hehe - yeah, should have elaborated by saying:
"Electric fans are more efficient at cooling during low speeds - such as stop lights, and while 4 wheeling at slow speeds."

I have heard fort Torus will fit. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll find a Trackick at a u-pull-it. I would LOVE to find one with a thermostat of some kind. I like the Flex-a-lite, but I don't like the $100 price tag, or $200 with thermostat. Being a starving student, $15 is much more my style  ;D

~J~
 

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