Intermediate Shaft yoke hitting transmission

[WarTowels]

Kinda a copy from my build thread, but I wanted more exposure than page 33 of a build thread...

My intermediate shaft (yoke) has been hitting the transmission.

( I searched and found two other people with this problem- one had no resolution- the other installed a new motor and then output bushing in the tranny- that seemed to fix it for them- but my tranny is a new JG rebuild... nothing seems loose... )

It's actually worn away part of the tranny. Not sure how long it's been doing this... I'm also not sure how I didn't notice this as I've been messing around trying to find issues for a while- I've rotated the whole assembly by hand many times and never noticed it hitting until today. It also seems like so much material has been worn away I'm surprised it spun at all and wasn't making horrrrrrible noises from the get-go?

So I'm very confused as to both how I didn't notice this before but also... how's this even possible.

Some combo not working well together?

1.6L 8v
NEW OEM Rubber Motor Mounts and stock 1.3 Metal Mounts
Trail Tough motor mount adapter on the passenger side (engine seems well-aligned relative to other things)
OEM T-case brackets and OEM t-case mounts (1 new mount, 2 used but look fine condition)
Pre 88.5 Transmission
NEW OEM Tranny mount
OME 1.5 springs in the back (unknown similar spring up front)
LROR 1" Shackles in the rear, stock up front

How on earth can the yoke hit the tranny?! And what should I even do about that?

Videos: https://youtu.be/55x-PCdH3kU

It seems like the location of the yoke and transmission should be fixed- give that the shaft literally fits onto the output shaft of the tr anny- how could it interfere?

The only thing I could think of is the shaft is sliding TOO FAR onto the output shaft of the tranny? So the yoke is slightly too far in?

But not sure how that's super possible either...

 

[WarTowels]

I'm feeling some play on the shafts, from what I expect is the u joint. The yoke doesn't seem to move. Still puzzled why that's hitting...

 

[WarTowels]

Well for better or worse I lifted the tranny up with washers about 3/4". This pushed the tranny just a smidge away from the t-case and stopped the rubbing. Still real close.

Things still sound kinda crunchy

In the vacinity of the t-case =/ kinda rumbly still. the rear diff seem clonky as well, especially quickly hitting the gas or letting off it. I'm pretty sure it's been like that though. Disconnected from then t case there seems to be more slop than I'd expect.

?lso the intermediate shaft and front shaft feel like they have a smidgen of play in the u joints. I'm sure they haven't been greased in two decades, should I try that first? The rear shaft doesn't seem to have any play.

So maybe progress. Maybe not, kinda hard to tell.

 

[Bigfootford]

Wow, no one has gave you any input into this issue.  Sure is strange but I do not know about the 1.6 conversion and if there is any difference that would make the shaft rub.  It's like the yoke diameter is slightly too big..  This is the orig trans and driveshaft you had before the engine swap?  I can get you a measurement or two if needed. 
In your video you said that the shaft moves a bit..  That does not seem right.  The trans shaft that the yoke goes into should be tight.
The bearing tolerances are TIGHT along with the needle bearings that couple the rear trans shaft to the front one along with the big bearing in the center.

Item 1, 11 and 14 are the support for the input shaft.  There should be no movement of that input shaft.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HFrHkA_fybc/UbENjQHF4rI/AAAAAAAAF1w/sECN7hNn8dA/s640/skrzynia.jpg

Jim

 

[Bigfootford]

Is your JG's rebuilt trans been run before you did all this stuff?  If so was it quiet in all gears?

I got one of his rebuilds and it was really noisy in 4th gear on compression/slowing down..  Low range t-case really brought out the sound.  He sent me a replacement.  The replacement was way better but still has some sounds in 4th.  
At that point he was not doing very well.  I got a feeling that he was not being as thorough as he should be.  I am living with the sounds.

The interesting part of my 4th gear noise on compression is if I am running in 5th and shift down into 4th and do compression the sound is gone..hahahaa.  Shift down to 3,2nd and back up to 4th the sound is back...  


At $350 I was feeling that he was only replacing what was necessary, just bearings that did not look good or, or, or.

 

[Bigfootford]

Here is an audio I sent to John.  The audio was taken with the trans cover off.
First part of the video is in low range...  

https://youtu.be/XWq7QRbn0KQ

Jim

 

[Spokerider]

Good audio Jim, easy to hear your trans noise and in what gears.

No doubt, JG was not up to his best when he was busy dying. I wouldn't be at the top of my game either.......

Suzuki drivetrain noise. I'd bet that we all experience this to some degree in our samurai's. I had TG 4.9's in the TC, and had much decel-related gear noise with them. I put the oem TC gears back in........much quieter, but still has that decel-grumble now and again.
I will live with it, as I know it will never be totally quiet.

Now, what I'd like to know is..........what / how did a totally stock NEW samurai sound like when driven? Was it quiet in all gears, during accel and decel? Did they have *some* discernible gear noise? From the TC? Trans? Both?

Most if not all of us drive well worn [ and modded ] zuks.......so how would we know otherwise?
Is there anyone here that has owned and driven a brand new samurai that can comment?
What is the base-line DT noise of a brand new samurai?

 

[Bigfootford]

Good audio Jim, easy to hear your trans noise and in what gears.

No doubt, JG was not up to his best when he was busy dying. I wouldn't be at the top of my game either.......

Suzuki drivetrain noise. I'd bet that we all experience this to some degree in our samurai's. I had TG 4.9's in the TC, and had much decel-related gear noise with them. I put the oem TC gears back in........much quieter, but still has that decel-grumble now and again.
I will live with it, as I know it will never be totally quiet.

Now, what I'd like to know is..........what / how did a totally stock NEW samurai sound like when driven? Was it quiet in all gears, during accel and decel? Did they have *some* discernible gear noise? From the TC? Trans? Both?

Most if not all of us drive well worn [ and modded ] zuks.......so how would we know otherwise?
Is there anyone here that has owned and driven a brand new samurai that can comment?
What is the base-line DT noise of a brand new samurai?

What did our Z's sound like new.. 
I have 2 friends that have Z's,  Reddog1 and Skipro1.  Their drive train is way quieter than mine, Skipro has a JG rebuild from about 2 years ago.  It is quiet.  This 2nd tranny is noisy but not as bad as the one I did the audio on.
Also have one other friend that recently got a JG rebuild trans and it does not sound good, not the same sounds as mine.

I did try using 80-140 w oil in it.  Was quieter but impossible to shift when cold..hahahaa.
I went back to 90w.  JG recommended kendal oil..  Less foaming.  It is quieter than the Valvoline.

I have 4.16 gears in my Z that I did myself.  It only makes a sweet gear sound. 

Agree that John was not up to his game.  I had a couple of long discussions with him while he was in treatment traveling to TJ mex. for treatment.  US treatment was not working.  He was too young to go!   
Last Corp America job I had lost the owner/president at 49 to Prostrate cancer.  He went down quick!  Very sad.

Jim

 

[WarTowels]

Hey Jim, sorry I missed your replies earlier.

My original tranny ran low on oil and sadly, I killed it. It was perfect prior afiak, no weird noises (but may have been paying attention less). I had a used tranny I bought as well, so I ended up sending both to JG so I could get reduced price on the rebuild. IIRC both tranny were too damaged, so it they became a parts source.

So we went with a pre- 88.5 tranny. After installing it, it seemed very loud and grindy noises. Which as it turns out, maybe was this shaft? idk. Didn't seem to do the weird noises prior.

So I sent that tranny back, and he sent out another rebuild. Seemed basically the same.

Mine sounds like garbage on compression as well, though not nearly as bad as yours. I also have some sort of driveline/diff clunk accompanying the symphony.

I sitll have whirring noises anytime the clutch is not being pressed. (I've put 3 throwout bearings in of various makes. All do it.)
The grindy noises has gone away, I dremeled a little bit of the tranny, and I think the rest took care of itself if you know what I mean.

I still am not sure why it was hitting though, other than having a 1.6L the the aforementioned minor mods it's fairly stock. I do think I need new u-joints though, so that may be the issue. When they get spinning fast, I'm guessing they are flexing enough to make contact.

 

[WarTowels]

This is the orig trans and driveshaft you had before the engine swap? 

In your video you said that the shaft moves a bit..  That does not seem right.  The trans shaft that the yoke goes into should be tight.
The bearing tolerances are TIGHT along with the needle bearings that couple the rear trans shaft to the front one along with the big bearing in the center.

Original Shaft, not original Tranny. They are in fact from different generations- the D/S is from post 88.5 and the Tranny is from pre 88.5.

The shaft definitely has some play. I am not sure why. I thought the u-joints didn't have any play when I had them off the car, but now back on, I feel like there is slight play if i give the shaft a shake. 2/3 shafts do this. The intermeiate shaft, the front drive shaft iirc both do this. The rear drive shaft doesn't. But that is the one that makes the most noise clunking around, doing weird shit. Have another video of that in my build thread... don't know what' wrong there, either.

 

[Bigfootford]

Original Shaft, not original Tranny. They are in fact from different generations- the D/S is from post 88.5 and the Tranny is from pre 88.5.

The shaft definitely has some play. I am not sure why. I thought the u-joints didn't have any play when I had them off the car, but now back on, I feel like there is slight play if i give the shaft a shake. 2/3 shafts do this. The intermeiate shaft, the front drive shaft iirc both do this. The rear drive shaft doesn't. But that is the one that makes the most noise clunking around, doing weird poop. Have another video of that in my build thread... don't know what' wrong there, either.

Should be no slop in the U joints nor the splined yoke into the trans or TC....

Jim