Arc Welders..........a good choice or not?

Spokerider

Spokerider

Well-known member
Who here stick welds? 

My miller 185 mig can just weld 1/4" mild steel. With Blueshield gas [ over C02 ], it's maxed out even more. I would like another [ or more powerful ] welder. 
I was at a fab shop the other day and the fabricator there said they all use Arc welders for 3/8ths and up. He does damn nice work too, 
Looking at the price of a new Miller 252........ouch. Seems there are more used arc welders out there that can do 3/8ths and 1/2" at a fraction of the mig cost. 

So, for those that can perform certified welds with an arc welder.........can it do as nice a job as a mig? 
I have never tried arc welding, just mig. 
 
Technically mig is still arc welding. Your talking about SMAW stick welding. I can do a good quality stick weld, but between prep work and all, mig is much easier
 
I have a mig and a stick welder. Personally if its structural and you want a nice thick weld, go with stick. It takes some practice though, a bit tough at first. If you can get it down its much cheaper, but IMHO harder to work with, especially in tight spots and angles. If you can afford it, I would get a bigger mig. If you can't it is a good alternative but I would break out the scrap metal for plenty of technique building.
 
Well after the Miller Sidekick XL quit, I bought an old Millematic 200 mig. Damn, it welds nicely compared to my old Sidekick. Has a very sweet arc. Guys of yesteryear really liked the Millermatic 200, way more than the newer Millermatic 250. 
Yes, it's old, about 1983 vintage, but it has a the spot weld option and a "burnback" control adjustment. That is a great advancement for me, as the old Sidekick was always burning the wire back into the tip on me. 200 amps with 60% duty cycle has enough heat for my welding projects. I tried a Lincon Power weld 215 amp, and the Millermatic 200 gave nicer welds [ for me ] than the Lincon did. 


I may try to resurrect the Sidekick because I hate to discard anything that is still good. I think it just needs a new CR 1 relay. 
 
Spokerider date=1450630206 said:
Well after the Miller Sidekick XL quit, I bought an old Millematic 200 mig. dang, it welds nicely compared to my old Sidekick. Has a very sweet arc. Guys of yesteryear really liked the Millermatic 200, way more than the newer Millermatic 250.
Yes, it's old, about 1983 vintage, but it has a the spot weld option and a "burnback" control adjustment. That is a great advancement for me, as the old Sidekick was always burning the wire back into the tip on me. 200 amps with 60% duty cycle has enough heat for my welding projects. I tried a Lincon Power weld 215 amp, and the Millermatic 200 gave nicer welds [ for me ] than the Lincon did.


I may try to resurrect the Sidekick because I hate to discard anything that is still good. I think it just needs a new CR 1 relay.
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I was taught on Lincoln welders. Everything from a basic mig all the way up to a water cooled tig! There is something to be said about Miller welders especially their migs. I didn't know what I was missing til about 3 years ago when I started working at a shop that had one. They seem to operate very smooth and I have NEVER had a wire feed problem with them. Lincolns are nice as well but I have had my fair share of wire feed and gas flow issues with them.
 
TheLastSamurai date=1450813032 said:
I was taught on Lincoln welders. Everything from a basic mig all the way up to a water cooled tig! There is something to be said about Miller welders especially their migs. I didn't know what I was missing til about 3 years ago when I started working at a shop that had one. They seem to operate very smooth and I have NEVER had a wire feed problem with them. Lincolns are nice as well but I have had my fair share of wire feed and gas flow issues with them.
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Yep, I'm just a hack welder. I've only ever used / tried a handful of welders, ever.
Can't recall what brand the mig was in high school.......that was 35 years ago, lol. My little Hobart Handler, the Sidekick XL, the Lincon 215, and the Millermatic 200 are what I've used since.
The welder DOES make a difference in the weld quality, I can see that. I'd like to keep the Millermatic around and would replace a part or two on it if necessary, but when researching it on Google, I really couldn't find any complaints on it breaking down. Been thinking of up-grading the whip to a Bernard Q gun, but wonder if I will have feeding issues with .035 wire in a 15ft cable? [ as opposed to the 10ft OEM Miller gun ].
Would also like to up-grade my helmet. Thinking of the Lincon 3350 or the Hobart Pro. Both have 4 sensors and both get good reviews and don't cost nearly $500 here in Canada. My $60 Chinese auto darkening helmet works, most of the time, but has a very small sight window and I do get flashed with it when I am not looking straight on through the sight window.
 
I don't think you'll have feed issues as long as the whip stays relatively straight and the tensioner wheel has enough pressure on the wire. I notice on longer whips it tends to slip off and "bird nest" right in front of the tensioner wheel if its not tight enough. If you are able to, adjust the wire feed conduit closer to the tensioner wheel, it will prevent that.
As for the helmet, I started out using a harbor freight helmet which was auto darkening and it worked pretty good. Then I was given a Miller without auto-darkening. Although you have to get used to dropping it before the arc, you can see much better and as a result my welds were better. I have not used a Lincoln or Hobart helmet but I would imagine they are just as nice.
 
TheLastSamurai date=1450940718 said:
I don't think you'll have feed issues as long as the whip stays relatively straight and the tensioner wheel has enough pressure on the wire. I notice on longer whips it tends to slip off and "bird nest" right in front of the tensioner wheel if its not tight enough. If you are able to, adjust the wire feed conduit closer to the tensioner wheel, it will prevent that.
As for the helmet, I started out using a harbor freight helmet which was auto darkening and it worked pretty good. Then I was given a Miller without auto-darkening. Although you have to get used to dropping it before the arc, you can see much better and as a result my welds were better. I have not used a Lincoln or Hobart helmet but I would imagine they are just as nice.
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Do you have a single shade lens, like a 10? or? 
How is it that you can see better, not being an auto darkening helmet? I tried an old fiber max helmet years ago, and didn't care for it at all. 
I have read that the color of the shade plays a big role in being able to differentiate the weld pool from non-molten metal while welding. For some reason, the auto darkening lenses are all green........apparently not the best for seeing the molten pool. Jackson makes a helmet that has a gold colored lens, and shows the molten pool well so I have read. 
 
My Dad gave me his old arc welding helmet and it was so dark I could hardly see anything using the mig. I am not sure if arc is a brighter weld than mig. Jim
 
Yes, I believe my Miller is a constant 10. I think its just preference but I could see better "at first" because my eyes did not have a slow adjustment when compared to the auto darkening. The solid lens. you flip down and its like a light switch, with the auto its a bit slower and that short time your eyes are adjusting your laying wire. If you are trying to over lap welds it can be difficult. Again, its probably just my preference. I have only used green lenses and I have not had any trouble with seeing the weld "puddle". I would be interested in trying a diff color though.  Also the lens on my Miller is 2 1/2 times the size of my auto darkening helmet. That helps a lot as well.
 
I use an old lincoln tombstone.   It aint fancy but on heaveyer material it will really lay down a nice weld.  Bought for 75 dollars
 
one of the reasons i bought my HTP Mig2400 is because its based more off of older tech. It has a copper core transformer and just has taps for the heat and infinite wire speed adjustment. i dont need fancy autoset or anything like that. and i got it new for half the cost of a used miller in the same class. i can blow through 1/4" steel like its butter if i try.
 
redidbull date=1451219243 said:
My Dad gave me his old arc welding helmet and it was so dark I could hardly see anything using the mig. I am not sure if arc is a brighter weld than mig. Jim
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Stick welders are brighter than mig. It could also be a dual helmet for welding and an oxy acetylene torch, those get pretty bright too. 
 
If you want bright try a carbon ark torch.   I have one. If I weld in ant shirt with it for 20 min I sunburn lol.  Long sleeves and the darkest lense I can find.   But it beats an oxy act rig hand down for.mild steel welding or brazing.   But there is a learning curve for sure
 
They may not be as bright as a carbon ark torch, but plasmas can get pretty bright too. I would never think of welding or cutting without long sleeves or even shirts with pockets on them, at least not if I had a choice. When I was in school I was mig welding and a fat piece of hot slag went into my shirt pocket and caught fire, I still have a scar on my chest from it, not fun! If your helmet is not dark enough and you don't have access to a darker one, I have used polarized sunglasses under the helmet to get me by. I wouldn't recommend it for continuous use though.
 
If you start with stick welders, might is easier.  Harder to go the other way, but very doable.  Really nice when you have dirty metal to pull out some 6011 and it goes right through it, might meta needs to be cleaner.  More choices with 6010 and 7018.  Spent 5 years welding high pressure steam lines in the Navy with 5216 and 9018.  Even did some nuclear tight work.

My opinion, and my opinion only, if you really need a super strong weld, use a stick welder.
 

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