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Topic: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue..... (Read 10794 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • jim3835
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #60
George I hate to keep bothering you, but I have to take my rig through omissions and I have the same problem did the light go out and stay out and did you ever find the crank sensor. The only thing different is mine runs with just a slight miss occasionally

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #61
last post 2009 (poster awakens the dead files)
the G16 engines have NO crank sensor (usa) untill 1996 (epa laws, OBD2)
the All G16s  have CMP in the distributor, 1991 to 1999, at least.
the J18s and j20 engines, the crank sensor is behind the flywheel drop transmission yes.
the J20b last generation with VVT the crank sensor moved, to block. front.(left , IIRC) late 2000s. 
the J18/j20s cam sensor is behind the left rear cam (2 cams, left rear)

Photos. yes have em.
here is 96-98 J18
http://www.fixkick.com/engine/20Liter/html/image_8.html


here is usa, G16b 96+
http://www.fixkick.com/my96-16v/ckp-sensor1th.jpg


g16a cmp
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/dizzy-test1.jpg

g16b cmp same place

j18 cam sensor and j20s before 1999
http://fixkick.com/engine/20Liter/images/2000b.jpg

In all cases crank for 5 full seconds and the scan tool will tell you which sensor fails.
if you lost all spark
oddly the G16b,  96-98 ckp sensor , engine  starts and runs with no CKP,  but all misfire, monitors go dead. (try it if you dont believe it.)




  • Last Edit: Sunday, Apr 30, 2017, 03:49 PM by jtgh
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #62
So on my 98 Chevy tracker. The CMP in the distributor does the job of the crank positioning sensor, which for the life of me I cannot find hopefully new parts in the distributor new wires and new plugs will do the trick anymore suggestions would be great. I thank you for taking the time to send those pictures. They were helpful 

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #63
i posted 3 times and all 3 were deleted when i hit the post button, so ill  now do a paste, from  text file.
next post this is a test.
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #64
to JIM

ok that works,

first off, no symptoms stated.  got misfiring engine? if yes tell when and under what driving condidtions (parked, moving ,hills)

this car has 2 sensors, related, CKP and CMP and they work together,
Why not finish the 60k mile tuneup, first.  spark plugs, cap,rotor, wireset (best wire set is mag wires on this weak spark system.)
the spark coil was moved inside the distributor, if it fails P0300 codes, happen.

it is true the engine G16b runs with the CKP removed but will set the CEL lamp glowing and all OBD2 misfire monitors go dead if CKP dies.

and then  fail smog tests. (dead monitors fail)


rule1, the CMP never fails,  it's a deep buried HALL sensor inside the Distributor. its a ROBUST HALL SENSOR, tell me how it can fail?

Suzuki does not sell the parts inside the distributor, at all, just a whole distrib or cap/rotor/wires.  (nor does the aftermarket sell CMP sensors, but do sell rebuilt distribs)
cardone sells rebuilts in usa.


if you used any OBD2 scan tool ever made, it will tell you if CMP is bad, P0340 codes, in fact the FSM books states, even 1 misfire in 10 on the CKP or CMP are REPORTED .
and is a fact , because ive tested this feature.

tests:
key on, CEL lamp must glow in cluster
start engine CEL lamp most go out and stay out driving, or you have stored, DTC errors, scan it now,
finish the tunup first. do not spend $500 on parts guessing, expensive parts that do not fail, do that tuneup
spark , wires,cap,rotor and filters, first.  (this cures most cars that misfire, not tuned-up in a decade) aka, now as doing the SERVICE POINTS>.
Is the cam belt over 60,000 miles old?,  if you let it go bad, the cam timing will be bouncing and you will get false , CMP errors, from that..... if in fact are.




Links: (still works, after blocking the whole Russian federation,  LOL)
all causes of misfire ! 50+
http://www.fixkick.com/misfiring.html


the 60k miles list is here, on the tuneup page

http://www.fixkick.com/specs/scheduleBw.jpg


good luck
please post symptoms first so the helper can now what's UP.

link3
DTC 96-98
a expanded list here, (has missing 4speed tranny codes.

http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/96_ALL_CEL/96_all_dtcs1.pdf



  • Last Edit: Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 09:57 AM by jtgh
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #65
if in usa, almost all DTC that set turn on the CEL (in 1996-1998)
but not in CANADA.!!! are you there? be nice to know if true... answers get better......


 i have the list for them,its table B, for canada.
here is the Canada blind CEL list ! ( GEO's sold to mexico or Africa, ive no clue)

due to these ODD FACTS, we scan all cars, we never see CEL out and believe it, (CEL out means passes smog,only only in USA)
my new car , that x100 more true,  huge numbers of non CEL , errors. stored.

http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/96DTC-ECU2.jpg


retired mech older than dirt.

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #66
Good morning . I live in Washington state USA. I am working on a 1998 Chevy tracker 1.6 single overhead cam that does run and is drivable but throwing a code P0335, which suggests crank positioning sensor. My question is, is that code eradicated by changing or cleaning distributor pick up and replacing cap and wires and plugs the little motor runs pretty good even with the code. The little thing seems to make gas to bed. They stop making them again your help is appreciated

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #67
you make this so easy.
that does run and is drivable but throwing a code P0335, which suggests crank positioning sensor.


My question is,
is that code eradicated by changing or cleaning distributor pick up? (what is a distributor pick, please say ?)
and replacing cap and wires and plugs the little motor runs pretty good even with the code.
no, sorry, 335 will never be cured  with new spark parts,  ever.  335 means the CKP sensor signals are WRONG.
Nor will a new distributor ever cure this.  its the crank sensor, only.
No 335 means the sensor CKP is:
1: CKP is missing
2: CKP fell off. and is dangling there, (look yet?)
3: wires to it are bad. any wire damage what so ever is bad, here.
4: someone put a 1995 engine (92-95 in USA) and has no place to install the CKP sensors.
5: the crank pulley nut was never set to 94 foot/lbs and is loose (TSB covers this) and now is loose the CKP reluctor
flops wildly and sure, causes CKP errors, seen many do that.
6: wrong engine,2,  off Esteem, with WRONG COG, see photos below. CKP has no hope with wrong cog, off wrong engines.


so why not just look for it first. is it there?
are the wires damaged,

here it is , in all its glory.

http://www.fixkick.com/my96-16v/ckp-sensor.jpg

if missing , and if no large round hole in the pan , and pump and no stud there that means WRONG ENGINE.
if present then.
unplugged it? then re-seat it?


The little thing seems to make gas to bed.  (bed?)
They stop making them again your help is appreciated
Who stopped making what? the car, the engine, the CKP, ? (yes on first 2)


here is a reluctor star for the CKP signals.

see me , with new crank?>
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/snouts/html/image_5.html

see the cog wheel there,  bottom crank cog, this is 1996 to 1998 setup.
that cog must never be allowed to get loose.


and last , my favorite
is wrong engine #2

http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/snouts/images/wrong-crank-cog97.jpg

start by looking at the CKP with critical eyes.
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #68
gas to bed?
i think you meant to say uses way to much fuel.. suck gas like mad. or? or my Mileage is BAD.

sure it will , the CEL glows
and tells you the engine is in limphome mode.
limphome mode the engines all suck gas like mad.  as low as 15miles per gallon BAD.

it also wrecks the CAT converter (overheats it) and then fails smog , easy.
if near Seattle, they do smog there,for a fact.


what to do, ?
well fix 335
and that starts with looking at it.
good luck and to tell progress.


btw 2, engine swaps on old cars are common
if you tell me the the engine serial numbers,  i can tell you the year.

here is yours,  new.
1998
G16Lnnnnnnn
L for letter is year

Letter = W = 1998 correct engine.  ( T,V, and W years are all ok) (off sidekick or tracker but esteem must have crank cog changed out)
letter, N,P,R,S are wrong. (has no  CKP provisions)
per this table

http://www.fixkick.com/specs/VIN-motor-decoder.html
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #69
is car
stick shift or auto/ tranny?
helps to know what car is there,
2wd or 4wd
2doors or 4doors.
all wiring varies by that, but not CKP, but knowing what car it really is , helps greatly.


ever do this,  its the first thing to do with all G16s
that big 17mm crank bolt.

all G16s, we do this DAY 1,  (ownership day 1) or risk totally wrecking the crank, (END)
snout damage 101.
how to check it varies by that transmission you have, i have a page showing all ways to check and correct this bolt torque.

http://www.fixkick.com/All-Pdfs/TSB/89-96crank-bolt.pdf


her is my lock it up page. (always short of a nasty chain wrench)
http://www.fixkick.com/engine/myclutch/flywheel-locks.html


  • Last Edit: Wednesday, May 03, 2017, 03:07 PM by jtgh
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #70
Sorry for not disclosing all pertinent information I have a 98 Chevy tracker 1.6 four-cylinder single overhead cam automatic transmission four-wheel drive two-door the little convertible. It has manual hubs. I will be checking the harmonic balancer Bolt as I am going to replace the timing belt just for routine maintenance. I plan to keep this vehicle. Again, I thank you for your time and patience

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #71
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/16-fast-belt-install.html

this page also has the factory actual pages too.

eg1:
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/16V/fsmpages.html

do not use "I" marks only the "E" marks
suz, uses that cam cog for 2 engines, not just this one.


i guess the CkP (crank sensor) is present,  and bolted down , and its wires are not mangled?

since its the A/t box.  (3speed or 4?)
that means there is great chance the last guy did not
1: read the TSB  published in 1996.  (94ft/lb rule)
2: nor check that the TSB was followed, last time or even this time.
3: then couldnt figure out a way to lock the fly wheel, and do the job right (many a KICK engine died from this folly)
  • Last Edit: Saturday, May 06, 2017, 08:24 AM by jtgh
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #72
Thank you for all the information you sent. and the pictures, because we all know a picture is worth 1000 words. This will help when I put on the new belt. I was thinking of using platinum plugs would this be to my advantage? or just extra money spent. Again thanks for all the help I hope everyone has a good  weekend

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #73
easy question
if you drive 10k, per year, normal cheap plugs work great, for like 3 + years, longtime
if you drive like i did, (before retired) 36k miles per year, sure platinum. NGK,  best as listed for your car, exactly and gapped to .028:"
plugs are not gapped for your car. 

it's about how often head goes under hood. really.
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #74
I am retired also I will probably only put on 3 or 4 K a year. This vehicle will only be used for around town to the store and such NGK makes a good plug that's what I'll use and thank you for the heads up on the setting I would have assumed they were already set at the proper gap. Well I better get started on this or it will be winter. I have the problem of procrastination. I'll get back with you and tell you how it goes

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #75
Also, it seems every time I tried to reply my message is deleted. Weird. I will continue trying

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #76
After replacing the spark plugs and wires and timing belt I noticed the wire for the crank positioning sensor just hanging there is no place on this motor for the sensor. It seems someone has changed motors, perhaps 95 or earlier what parts do I have to change to make this work in my 98 Chevy tracker 1.6 16 valve single overhead cam motor hopefully not too expensive

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #77
this is posted here and on all tracker/kick/vitara forums.
its and engine swap.

to do the wrong engine in yours takes these parts.

1: oil pump and matching pan for CKP sensor.
2: the new crank bottom belt cog wheel  with the 1996 to 1998,  reluctor  star now at rear.  or ckp is dead.
3: do not use G16b out of esteem or it has wrong crank cog sensor, even same year, match but can be corrected same as 92-95s.

this happened in 1996 USA law,  mandated OBD2 which means must have CKP do do MISFIRE DETECTION.
if you had scanned it , it told you CKP is dead, and is. P0335 is that sensor.

3major parts are missing here,  and lots of work, sorry,  the wrong pan, is the huge work. here. (with pump)

car runs but can never ever pass smog usa, and 1998 cars in CANADA are OBD2 now,




retired mech older than dirt.

  • jtgh
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #78
if not smog tested and MPG make you happy,
the only down side is maybe low CAT life.
it will run hotter .
so what is your MPG, mine was 28mpg (usa gallons) all the time, CEL lamp out of course.
5sp... autos less.but only in town. driving, less with autos. due to freeway TCC lockup.
retired mech older than dirt.

  • jim3835
  • [*]
Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #79
:bluesamf:        Yes I do have to go through omissions as I am in Washington state my miles per gallon is around 25 so the parts I need to make this thing pass omissions is the oil pump new oil pan with the little hole new crank sensor and a new cog wheel with the star at the rear of the reluctor