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Topic: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue..... (Read 10794 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #20

Is the timing sprocket & lower timing belt pulley both 1 peice or 2 peices?

Thanks for the info,
George


The timing sprocket/lower timing belt pulley (which are different terms for the same thing, as TVT mentioned) is 1 piece.
The crank pulley bolts to the timing sprocket/lower timing belt pulley.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3<br />Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96<br />Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97<br />Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers<br /><br />2.8.13

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #21
So it sound to me like the crank pulley & timing sprocket are actually 2 parts that bolt together to make 1 piece? I have one additional (probably stupid) question but just to be sure I will ask. I am assuming that an OBDI motor would NOT have a crank pulley w/ threaded holes on the back of it for the timing sprocket? I just want to make sure I have all the correct parts before I start on this thing because I will be using a bay in a friend of mines transmission shop over a weekend to do the job. I will do some trading w/ him to use the bay & he will pull the trans. so I can get the oil pan off & change out all the parts.

Looks like I am going to need the following parts if any of you guys have them & want to sell them let me know.

* OBDII Oil Pan (pic below, notice hole in front lip where crankshaft position sensor goes)
* Crankshaft position sensor
* Oil Pump (probably buy this new)
* Timing Sprocket & Crank Pulley

I just want to thank everyone that has shared their knowledge, information, time & pics to help me get this figured out.

Thanks Again,
GeorgeD in WV

WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • Whitfield
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #22
SOunds like the water is still muddy....

The Timing belt cog and crank position sensor toothed device are all made together as one piece on the OBD II unit. 

I believe Skyhighranger is speaking of the Serpentine belt pulley which will bolt to the front of the timing belt cog.

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #23

SOunds like the water is still muddy....

The Timing belt cog and crank position sensor toothed device are all made together as one piece on the OBD II unit. 

I believe Skyhighranger is speaking of the Serpentine belt pulley which will bolt to the front of the timing belt cog.


10-4. Thanks for clearing that up.

Thanks,
George D in WV
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #24

SOunds like the water is still muddy....

The Timing belt cog and crank position sensor toothed device are all made together as one piece on the OBD II unit. 

I believe Skyhighranger is speaking of the Serpentine belt pulley which will bolt to the front of the timing belt cog.


Yep, I misunderstood what he was asking.

As Whitfield mentioned, the toothed piece that is for the crank sensor is made as part of the lower timing belt pulley. 
And an OBD1 engine will not have this toothed piece as part of the lower timing belt pulley.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3<br />Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96<br />Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97<br />Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers<br /><br />2.8.13

  • IanL
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #25
I hate to rain on your parade, but I think you are assuming that the engine won't run because of the missing sensor.

However, it used to run without this sensor, and my understanding is that the crankshaft sensor is just a fallback if the camshaft position sensor (in the disty) is giving trouble.  If I'm right, that would explain why the engine used to run without the crankshaft sensor.

I'm afraid when you fix the crankshaft sensor, you will still have a problem getting the engine to run.


  • TVT
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #26


I guess what baffles me the most is that it ran before but now won’t even hit. It is getting plenty of gas but no fire.





I'm afraid when you fix the crankshaft sensor, you will still have a problem getting the engine to run.




I agree IanL,
While this has been a good "quest for perfection" and has its educational value...  Fixing the detail as disclosed by its OBDII will not change anything as far as getting it running...  It still is no more likely to start after this correction... the real problem will have to be tracked down... 

Whats good about this discussion is the value to those who have to live with OBDII... with testing stations in their neighborhood... and when their current tags expire and their car fails... and they are left with nothing to drive to work...  One code and they are denied the right to drive...

  I steer away from OBDII, but its problems can be dealt with... if one has the extra time, the extra money, and the patience... along with a good forum, like Zuwharrie.Com...

  (Now, was there any spark at the plugs??, I forget... )

Jeff


Currently with 24 TrackKicks... ***'89 thru '96 ***
 All but 3 of them are 2 Doors And Three are Tin Tops...

Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #27
I'll also agree with Ian.There is always a nightmare with situations like this. Did you yourself ever see this engine run in this vehicle or is this second hand info.Are you positive of the year of the vehicle.Can you post the # on the ECM.Any # on the distributor.Can you post the first 10 digits of the VIN.
In the works, moderate trail machine

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #28
JUST MY LUCK!!! :( That makes sense, sounds like just about every other project I get into, always turns into a bigger deal than expected. I will post the VIN, dist. # & ECM #'s tomorrow. Right now all I can post is a couple of pics of the distributor that I had taken before. I didn't personally hear this Tracker run but my friend & his son both heard it run & they said it ran great & I believe them. Now NO spark at all, won't hit a lick. Do you think I would be ahead to change (or check if possible) the camshaft position sensor in dist. first?



Thanks Again for all the help,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • IanL
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #29
Here are some checks to perform:

Disconnect distributor coupler.  With the latch on top (for orientation) check in the harness coupler, with the ignition ON:

between GND1 (lower center) and Vc (top right)
between GND2 (top left) and Vb (next to GND2)

both should be 10-14 V.  If not, check wiring.

Remove distributor cap and check in the distributor coupler:

COIL CHECK
Primary coil: Vc (upper right) to Coil (one below Vc)   0.7 to 0.9 ohm
Secondary Coil: Vc to Coil2 (inside the disty, the contact for the rotor)  13 to 18 ohm

IGNITOR CHECK
Prepare two 1.5v batteries in series (or other 3v source)
measure with ohmmeter in distributor coupler between GND1 (two below Coil, fourth from top) (use +ve lead of ohmmeter) and Coil (use -ve lead) under two conditions:

1)   +3V applied to Igt1 (between coil and GND1, so 3rd from top) and the -ve on GND1
2)   no voltage applied

With +3V applied, the ohmmeter should indicate continuity
With no voltage applied, the ohmmeter should indicate no continuity (infinity)

To check the Camshaft Position Sensor, measure between A13 on ECM coupler (lower right on the larger connector, wire color White) and ground with ignition ON and crankshaft turned slowly. Should change between 0 and 5V.

The problem could also be in the noise suppressor (not in the distributor) or even the ECM.
  • Last Edit: Tuesday, Dec 02, 2008, 05:23 AM by IanL

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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #30

I hate to rain on your parade, but I think you are assuming that the engine won't run because of the missing sensor.

However, it used to run without this sensor, and my understanding is that the crankshaft sensor is just a fallback if the camshaft position sensor (in the disty) is giving trouble.  If I'm right, that would explain why the engine used to run without the crankshaft sensor.

I'm afraid when you fix the crankshaft sensor, you will still have a problem getting the engine to run.




Unhook the battery to reset the computer and reconnect it after 10 minutes or so then start the vehicle. It should start at leat for a few seconds until it figures out that the crank position sensor is not working properly. So YES IT SHOULD RUN ....at least for a few seconds. If it does not run you will need to check for fuel, spark and the codes once again.


So it sound to me like the crank pulley & timing sprocket are actually 2 parts that bolt together to make 1 piece? I have one additional (probably stupid) question but just to be sure I will ask. I am assuming that an OBDI motor would NOT have a crank pulley w/ threaded holes on the back of it for the timing sprocket? I just want to make sure I have all the correct parts before I start on this thing because I will be using a bay in a friend of mines transmission shop over a weekend to do the job. I will do some trading w/ him to use the bay & he will pull the trans. so I can get the oil pan off & change out all the parts.

Looks like I am going to need the following parts if any of you guys have them & want to sell them let me know.

* OBDII Oil Pan (pic below, notice hole in front lip where crankshaft position sensor goes)
* Crankshaft position sensor
* Oil Pump (probably buy this new)
* Timing Sprocket & Crank Pulley

I just want to thank everyone that has shared their knowledge, information, time & pics to help me get this figured out.

Thanks Again,
GeorgeD in WV




I had a 1997 4X4 auto with a blown motor that I just swapped a 1995 OBD I motor into and had to do this same thing. It's really not that hard and everything bolts right up. The above mentioned parts list is correct, but i would add a new crank seal to it. Also, you do not need to pull the transmission to swap the oil pan. If you have questions you can e-mail me directly.

Sean DeVinney
aftermarket4x4@cox.net.
Never miss an opportunity to spend time with family and friends!

  • Surly
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #31

Here are some checks to perform:

Disconnect distributor coupler.  With the latch on top (for orientation) check in the harness coupler, with the ignition ON:

between GND1 (lower center) and Vc (top right)
between GND2 (top left) and Vb (next to GND2)

both should be 10-14 V.  If not, check wiring.

Remove distributor cap and check in the distributor coupler:

COIL CHECK
Primary coil: Vc (upper right) to Coil (one below Vc)   0.7 to 0.9 ohm
Secondary Coil: Vc to Coil2 (inside the disty, the contact for the rotor)  13 to 18 ohm

IGNITOR CHECK
Prepare two 1.5v batteries in series (or other 3v source)
measure with ohmmeter in distributor coupler between GND1 (two below Coil, fourth from top) (use +ve lead of ohmmeter) and Coil (use -ve lead) under two conditions:

1)   +3V applied to Igt1 (between coil and GND1, so 3rd from top) and the -ve on GND1
2)   no voltage applied

With +3V applied, the ohmmeter should indicate continuity
With no voltage applied, the ohmmeter should indicate no continuity (infinity)

To check the Camshaft Position Sensor, measure between A13 on ECM coupler (lower right on the larger connector, wire color White) and ground with ignition ON and crankshaft turned slowly. Should change between 0 and 5V.

The problem could also be in the noise suppressor (not in the distributor) or even the ECM.



Now that's an expert opinion!  [thumbsup]  Thanks for posting, Ian.

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #32
I have to agree that the above post by Surly appears to truly be an expert opinion. I understand about 1/2 of it & will get to trying it as soon as I can. I have been down w/ the flu last couple days & it is COLD here. I did get out today & got a few pics for the VIN & dist numbers that were requested. I didn't attempt to remove the computer as it is just too cold out & I still feel pretty crappy. I did unhook the battery & let it set about an hour & hooked it up & tried to start it....nothing still no fire, plenty of fuel, didn't scan it again...I forgot. I had tried that in the past & after I had cleared the codes the first time, they never came back. I figured that was because it never ran. Below are some pics w/ some numbers that may or may not help.

Just a thought, this thing has sat for approx. 6 months since it ran, could the setting cause any particular corrosion problems anywhere to keep it from running.

Again I really appreciate all the info. When I get to feeling a little better I will drag it back over in front of my garage door (too much junk in the garage to get it in) & fire up my space heater & run down some of the leads that have been posted.

Thanks,
George








WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • IanL
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #33
Just to clarify, the check on the CPS is done with the ECM plugged in.

  • j2custom
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #34
Just a thought, do a search on the 16v timing issues and see if the cam sprocket is in the right position and if the rotor (disty) is in right.  Remember the disty rotates CCW.  I bought a project 4 door with the 16v and had a hell of a time getting it to run right.  There was a wealth of knowledge on this board and everyone was very helpful.  HTH
1988 Sami on 38's, D44's, Hydro steering etc
1993 4 door Sidekick 16v 5 spd 4x4
1988 LJ111
01 Tahoe
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  • rangerscott
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #35
I might have skipped it but that is an OBDII disty.
Partsdinosaur.    Your engine rebuild needs.

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #36
Yes, it is an OBDII Distributor to the best of my knowledge. It plugs right into the wiring harness & it is different than the one on a old 95 junk 16V motor I have.

Thanks,
George

PS: Pics in this thread
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #37
Not that it should make a difference (since it is still OBD2 and everything is effectively the same as a 96).....but that VIN in your pics checks to a 98 Tracker.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3<br />Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96<br />Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97<br />Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers<br /><br />2.8.13

  • IanL
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #38

Not that it should make a difference (since it is still OBD2 and everything is effectively the same as a 96).....but that VIN in your pics checks to a 98 Tracker.


No difference - same part 96-thru-98, and that's what my post above relates to.

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #39

Not that it should make a difference (since it is still OBD2 and everything is effectively the same as a 96).....but that VIN in your pics checks to a 98 Tracker.


Yes I know mine is a 98, I also have a 96 for parts. The strange thing on it is that it has the newer distributor but no crankshaft position sensor & no wire for it either. Go figure, must be a early 96.

George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)