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Topic: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue..... (Read 10739 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • GeorgeD
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Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
I have posted about this before but I have finally got all my ducks in a rown w/ plenty of pictures so I thought I would try one more time.
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #1

I have a 98 Chevy Tracker 1.6 16V automatic 4 door. I received it from an estate, my friend was in charge of the estate & he also owns his own transmission shop for the past 40 years. When the previous owner bought this Tracker it had been flat towed improperly & had ruined the transmission, it would only go forward. My friend saw it & drove it when it was brought to his shop, he said it ran perfectly but trans was junk. The owner took Tracker home pulled trans. & brought it back to be rebuilt. When disassembled it was determined that it was beyond rebuilding. The owner bought a wrecked 96 for the trans. (I got the wrecked one in the deal as well). He took that trans to my friend’s transmission shop & he went through it since it was out. The owner took it home & installed it & a couple days later was killed in an automobile accident.

I brought it home, had to winch it up on my trailer because it wouldn’t start. I have tried everything I can think of & have talked to ever body I can think of & can’t figure out what it wrong. I scanned it & came back w/ code PO335 which was Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Malfunction.



After talking to several people & tracking down wires I came to find that it did not have a crankshaft position sensor.



I removed the front timing cover & there was no sprocket (for lack of a better name for it, see pics) for the crankshaft position sensor to read from behind the lower timing belt pulley.


MINE


Picture of what it should look like (Thanks Ranger Scott)

It also didn’t have a hole in the oil pan rim for the sensor to go through.



It does appear to have the correct distributor in it.



I guess what baffles me the most is that it ran before but now won’t even hit. It is getting plenty of gas but no fire.

My only guess on fixing it is to either buy a new motor for it or if possible get the parts needed & upgrade this motor. My question to someone who has worked on a lot of these motors is….. Can I get one of the sprockets that fit behind the lower timing belt pulley, oil pump (if needed), crankshaft position sensor & oil pan (or adapt my oil pan) & put them on this motor & then I could plug in the crankshaft position sensor wire & pray that it starts up & runs? Also is there a difference in the cranks if this is a pre-96 motor (if that is what I have)? I ask this because I don’t know that there would be enough room to put the sprocket on the older motor. If there’s not enough room I wouldn’t be able to get the lower timing belt pulley back on or possibly would be out of alignment enough to throw the timing belt off? Also if there is room could I take the crankshaft bolt out, remove the timing belt pulley & install the sprocket, pulley & bolt back w/o pulling the motor or damaging anything?

If I can fix it by adding the sprocket, oil pump, sensor & oil pan modification does anybody know the best place to get the parts. I see Parts Dinosaur has a good price on the oil pump but I didn't see any of the other parts I would need.

Thanks,
George D in WV

WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • Whitfield
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #2
Your issue is going to be very difficult for any of our experts to help with.  This is gonna need someone who can put their hands on it. 


It looks like some one has swapped in an OBD 1 (1991 - 1995) 1.6L 16v engine (maybe your parts truck was an early 96 OBDI).  Is their a chance that they swapped engine and trans from your parts truck?  If so then swap the harness and computer out of the same parts truck and you should be good.  

As for repair, I'd think you'd need to swap in the OBD 1 computer & harness Or swap back to an OBD2 Motor. 

I believe the distributors are different OBD1 to OBD2. 


Here is a picture of the OBD2 Crank sensor pick up


  • Last Edit: Monday, Nov 24, 2008, 10:05 AM by Whitfield

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #3
My parts tracker has the original engine still in it to the best of my knowledge. I know that it does not have the crankshaft sensor in it either, thus I am guessing that it is an early mfg. Yes the distributors are different in the OBDI & II motors. Both the 96 & 98 have the OBDII distributors & OBDII plugs under the dash but neither have the crankshaft position sensor. The 98 has the wire for it but the 96 doesn't. I have a 95 2 door Tracker set up w/ same motor & trans except it is OBDI, that how I know there is a difference in the distributors by comparing them.

I am guessing that the sprocket pickup behind the lower timing belt pulley will not fit on a OBDI motor? When you say change out the harness & computer do you mean change out the complete wiring harness for the complete vehicle or is it is a 2 or 3 piece hardness that I could get away w/ changing just the part under the hood?

Thanks,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • styng88
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #4
Have you tried putting a jumper where the sensor is supposed to be?

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #5
I had thought of trying that but was afraid it may screw up the computer. Jumping over that circuit would be constant power & the sensor supplies intermittent pulses as the sensor sprocket passes over the sensor. I figured that constant power would possibly make it run but probably not correctly & in the process might fry the computer.

Thanks,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • styng88
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #6
Could figure out the resistance of sensor and cheat the computer by thinking it was there rather than just straight jump?

  • Surly
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #7

Could figure out the resistance of sensor and cheat the computer by thinking it was there rather than just straight jump?


I must say, that's one hell of an EXPERT opinion. ::)


  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #9

Could figure out the resistance of sensor and cheat the computer by thinking it was there rather than just straight jump?


I'm not that electrically inclined & you have to figure for every attempt you take you will probably fry the computer until you get it right. I have no problem putting it back the way it is supposed to be as long as I know for sure there is room to put the sensor sprocket on the crank behind the lower timing belt pulley. I was hoping that someone out there that has worked with these engines a lot may know that answer. If it would work I will by a sprocket, oil pump, sensor & modify my oil pan.

If that won't work I have a 95 Sidekick I can put this motor in & then I would be looking for a newer motor for this one.

Thanks,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • TVT
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #10
There should be plenty of blown '96+  1.6L TrackKick engines laying around... why not swap the later model gear onto your earlier engine... It should work...

  The changing of the wiring harness to pre OBDII (to match your mostly converted OBDI engine) would require you to change the dash, the brake and clutch pedal system, and the steering column... even the A/C harness plugs up different between the two...

Jeff
Currently with 24 TrackKicks... ***'89 thru '96 ***
 All but 3 of them are 2 Doors And Three are Tin Tops...

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #11
Jeff,

That is exactly what I have been asking all along  [idea], will swapping that sprocket / gear work on my older engine work? I am in no way interested in swapping wiring harness ect... I NEED to know if there is room for that sprocket. I didn't know if the older crank may be a little shorter since it didn't have the sprocket. If someone out there that knows for sure that my older motor will have the room (same exact crank as the newer motors) to put the sensor sprocket in, I would be starting on it ASAP. I need to know for SURE. It might work or it ought to work ect... won't work for me. Not trying to be smart or condescending I just need to know for sure before I tear into it & order up a bunch of parts.

Thanks,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #12
The Crankshafts are the same as is the engine block,the oil pump is different for the 96 engine with the crank sensor.If you need a picture of anything post back i have a 96 engine with the sensor on my workbench.
In the works, moderate trail machine

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #13
THANK YOU !!!   I have been trying to find this out for quite a while now. I knew about the oil pump being different as it has the hole for the sensor. Any chance you might have one of those sensor sprockets or know of anyone that does?

Thanks Again,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • TVT
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #14

Jeff,

I need to know for SURE...

Thanks,
George


Agreed,


    You will need the sensor, the gear, the oil pump, and the oil pan from a '96+ 1.6L.

  I do not know if the timing cover is the same as well... The only advantage I would have of trying it anyway... Is that I already have all the necessary parts...  I just don't have the need... as I try to stay away from OBDII here in Nashville (where we have to be tested for emissions...) in fact my spare 16V engine is a '97, converted to work with my '95 TrackKicks... so I have left the unused sensor components in place.

Jeff
Currently with 24 TrackKicks... ***'89 thru '96 ***
 All but 3 of them are 2 Doors And Three are Tin Tops...

  • Whitfield
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #15
I recently bought the new sprocket from Suzukiparts1 here on the BBS (He is a OEM Dealer). 

I believe it ran me under around 50 for the NEW sprocket keyway and front seal.

Sounds like yo just need a few OBDII pieces, (if you can in fact just change out the oil pump).  You may try contacting Sean at Aftermarket 4x4 or Hawk Suzuki for these item used.

Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #16
I have used an OBD2 complete 1.3 block (from a geo metro) in an OBD1 samurai.  I had to use the samurai lower timing belt pulley (which doesn't have the "sprocket" on it), I had to swap the samurai oil pump in (that doesn't have the hole for the crank sensor), and I had to swap the samurai oil pan (which doesn't have the hole in the front for a crank sensor) onto the block.  Everything bolted up fine and aligned fine (including the original samurai timing belt cover).  So while not knowing for sure (since I have never actually done it), I would be willing to bet you can do the "reverse" swap and swap all the OBD2 1.6 trackick parts in without any issues, to your OBD1 engine.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3<br />Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96<br />Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97<br />Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers<br /><br />2.8.13

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #17

I recently bought the new sprocket from Suzukiparts1 here on the BBS (He is a OEM Dealer). 

I believe it ran me under around 50 for the NEW sprocket keyway and front seal.

Sounds like yo just need a few OBDII pieces, (if you can in fact just change out the oil pump).  You may try contacting Sean at Aftermarket 4x4 or Hawk Suzuki for these item used.


Is the timing sprocket & lower timing belt pulley both 1 peice or 2 peices?

Thanks for the info,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)

  • TVT
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #18

Is the timing sprocket & lower timing belt pulley both 1 peice or 2 peices?



They are different words for the same thing.  The "timing belt pulley" is actually incorrect... but then belts are normally associated with pulleys and not gears...  It IS actually a "Cogg wheel", or "Timing Sprocket" or "Timing Gear"... because It simply cannot allow slippage... as an actual belt/pulley does.

Jeff
Currently with 24 TrackKicks... ***'89 thru '96 ***
 All but 3 of them are 2 Doors And Three are Tin Tops...

  • GeorgeD
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Re: Need EXPERT opinion on 98 1.6 16V Engine issue.....
Reply #19

They are different words for the same thing.  The "timing belt pulley" is actually incorrect... but then belts are normally associated with pulleys and not gears...  It IS actually a "Cogg wheel", or "Timing Sprocket" or "Timing Gear"... because It simply cannot allow slippage... as an actual belt/pulley does.

Jeff


Jeff,

Thanks for the correction in terms. Would you happen to know if the item(s) I am talking about are in fact 1 or 2 pieces?

Thanks,
George
WANTED: Suzuki Samurais in any condition within a 100 mile radius of Hurricane, WV 25526 --- Maybe a little farther depending on what you have ;)