Kick box

[geckocycles]

Putting in a Kick box with a TC pump in the 88.5 Sammy on 31's.
My question is the Kick box mounts at a 10 deg angle on the frame. I see the Petroworks wedge that straightens the shaft in line with the frame. I was told that the wedge is 1 3/8" thick on the thick end and 1/8" on the thin end and is 5.5" long. This puts the angle at 12.8 degs and not 10. Are these dimensions correct or does the Kick box with the wedge angle the the input shaft towards the outside by almost 3 degs?

Another thing the box is 4 turns lock to lock. How many turns on the steering wheel is used on the Sammy before the front end stops turning?
Do you loose some turning to one side or another by angling the box so the input shaft is parallel with the frame?

[Mope]

I used the wedge, and it worked out great. I'll have to take a look to verify the measurements. Skyman has a good writeup on here, and might have the measurements your looking for. With the sami axles, you might not lose any turning radius. I have toy axles, and lost some, so I this. http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,86237.0.html

There is a pic in there that shows the trackkick arm a little shorter than the sami. By the time I had gone to the trackkick arm, I had lost a noticable amount of steering. Using the yota arm, I was able gain the full radius of the toy axles. The steering runs out about a 1/16th inch before the knuckles hit the stops.
HTH

[Skyman]

With the stock axles i didn't notice any loss in turning radius at all. If anything it seems improved. I did however have to re-set and align the pitman arm/rag joint spline/steering wheel afterwards (at first i was missing a little right turn, and had too much left)

I aligned the box by hooking everything up, and then removing the shaft from the box at the splines [/b]. After the shat was removed from the box, I centered the wheel, centered the tires, adjusted the drag link, and made sure they were all pointing straight and true. Then Iheld the wheel still with a bungee cord to the pedals, and re-installed the shaft at the box.

Some people remove the wheel, and some just adjust the draglink. Well, if you adjust the difference be removing the wheel, and re-centering it you can loose the ability of having the turn signals shut off automatically after a turn. I also preferred centering everything using the shaft as the disconnect/re-spline because it is very fine splined adnd allows for small adjustments. It's easy to get it right on.

After all this I noticed my drag link was a little long I think (or short) either way it was limiting travel and binding when going from lock to lock. It was making one throw short, and the other way long. It was overextending and putting a lot of pressure on the knuckles. I centered the steering wheel, removed the drag link from the pitman, centered up the tires, and then adjusted the drag link so it dropped in it's taper nice and easy. That way I made sure there was no tension on the drag link when everything was centered.

This was all kind of learned on the fly, and what worked for me. I hope it helps. (besides I hear pulling the steering wheel can be a PITA)

--Sky

[geckocycles]

There is nothing I can do to improve the turning radius. My knuckles hit the bolts that hold the seal plate on the inside of the housing ends now. I did grind the head of one to get a bit more turning radius but think the birfield may not be able to handle much more. I'll look up the proper terms for the parts later.

I was just thinking that if the box was meant to be mounted at 10 degs then the pitman arm would be centered in relation to that 10 degs and not parallel to the frame.

I can see that the angle of the wedge would be greater than 10 degs in order to line up input shaft of the gear box to the steering column and not the frame rail.

I also have duel Mercedes arms for my high steer that I may use. I have not heard anything negative so far about them except from Tom at Spidertrax who doesn't endorse anything that bolts to the caliper mounts for steering. I am thinking about making a bracket to further reinforce the Mercedes arms/caliper mount and bolt to the upper king pin area.

[geckocycles]

I got the rough wedge made and installed. I mounted the box as low and as far forward as possible being I plan to move my axle forward nearly 2".  I'm going to lighten it up by cutting of excess material later. I am also going to incorporate adjusting nuts for a pitman arm stop on it.  I may be able to get that all done tomorrow.
I used 2 plates, one 1/4" and another 1/2". Bolted the 1/4" to the frame. Machined 3  5/8" square stock pieces at an angle and welded them in place. One in the middle and one on either side. These angled pieces have a taped hole in them to give added threads to the frame mounting bolts. I welded a lug nut for the rear frame mount. This process in essence creates a sturdy hollow box wedge. I may also lighten it up by removing some material underneath the gear box between bolt holes where there is no support needed.






The radiator just barely hits the box at the bottom. Not bad at all. I made a 1/2" spacer block out of aluminum for the radiator frame mount on the driver side. The fan is still in the middle of the shroud.

I made the wedge so the angle points the input shaft to the steering shaft where it come out of the fire wall. About 2 degs more than parallel to the frame rails. I have a rag joint eliminator but put the rag joint back on for testing that application. I drilled out the plastic pins and shortened the shaft about 3/4" by simply pushing the two ends together.

Spacer block and shaft alignment.


There is at least 1/3 turn of travel left on the box so I do indeed have plenty of travel to go lock to lock on the knuckles. I had to remove the pitman arm and rotate it a few threads so the tie rod lines up well. No mod to the tie rod necessary for my SPUA. There is a downward angle from the pitman arm doen to the drag link mount. I have not installed my hi steer yet. If you were to keep the stock SPUA drag link and tie rod location a drop arm would work better.

[flashboiler]

Hey Ken, nice wedgie.  I hope 1/2" plate will be thick enough!


Your comment of the box needing more turns and thus slowing the steering had me worried.

But in the snow last week, the steering speed seemed much quicker.  Might be more turns but with power you can turn it so much quicker it more than makes up for it.

[geckocycles]

I think it was 1 2/3 rds turns of the steering wheel lock to lock where the knuckles with the housing end. The box itself is 2 turns of travel lock to lock internally.

Can't remember what the stock box was. Did I eat breakfast this morning even? LOL.

1/2" plate is plenty thick for thread engagement, if that is what you are concerned with? Look at the Petro Works one and it is much less on the two rear holes that bolt the box on. There are 2 formulas I here of. One is 2.5 threads and the other is the based on the OD of the bolt. There is more than the OD of the bolt engaged on the two rear holes and all other holes are several times that being the 5/8" wedges are also tapped. By moving the box more forward and the rear of the wedge is more than twice the thickness of the Petro Works one I'm not too concerned. The angle is probably close to Petro Works but both the thick and thin sections are thicker on mine. Maybe that is why my radiator hits the box but I heard that the Petro Works one requires some trimming of the radiator bracket too. I didn't have to trim anything but used a spacer instead which is really too thick and I will mill it down today to 3/8" thick.

[flashboiler]

Nah, I was poking a little fun at how THICK 1/2 is...

But thinking about it I suppose 3/8 would be marginal for threading depth.  Probably okay but for steering probably okay isn't good enough.

[MuddyBuddy]

I have a TC pump and kick box mounted without any wedge.  I replaced the rag joint with a u-joint from the kick steering shaft.  The u-joint handles the angle just fine without any binding.

[geckocycles]

I have a TC pump and kick box mounted without any wedge.  I replaced the rag joint with a u-joint from the kick steering shaft.  The u-joint handles the angle just fine without any binding.

I bolted mine up that way first but it looked like I was going to have to modify the radiator bracket allot. I have a rag joint eliminator so that wasn't an issue issue. I have a 1.3.

I removed and moved the coolant reservoir to the other side today.


Made a bracket to mount the PSC Reservoir and got that mounted.



Thinned down the aluminum spacer to about 5/16" for the radiator bracket. Now the radiator doesn't hit the box at all.


Mounted the TC pump. Went to put on the Spidertrax fittings for the Kick box but only one fit. The high pressure one so I put on the stock return fitting for now. Couldn't ask for better alignment of the pump.



My water cooler on the Tig developed a serious leak someplace inside it so I was unable to do some heavy welding till I get that apart and find the leak. So needless to say I was unable to do some more modifications to the wedge for the stops.

Tomorrow it is off the Hyd Hose shop to have the custom hoses made. They are going to be very short.

[NewbornZuk]

That wedge is mucho beef!

Nice work Geko!

[geckocycles]

That wedge is mucho beef!

Nice work Geko!

Thanks.
Hows that build of your coming?

[NewbornZuk]

Thanks.
Hows that build of your coming?

It's going pretty well... I'll PM you some details.

[geckocycles]

Not the best setup for the lower Reservoir hose. I had to raise the Res 1" and now it will hit the hood. I'm going to try to make a hard line connecting the box and res tomorrow. I should then be able to lower it again. $69 for 2 hoses and a fitting. OUCH!

[geckocycles]

I had a rattle noise in my Reservoir. Started shaking it and body parts came out of the return line. So I took it apart

   

to find a cricket. LOL.
   

It would of got filtered before the pump but sure was weird having body parts come out of my Reservoir!

ASSUME NOTHING was the first thing I was taught in the machine shop but come on, a cricket?