Author Topic: Turbo 1.6 16V Tracker/Sidekick motor in a Samurai = FAST FUN!  (Read 74282 times)

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Offline aftermarket4x4

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OK, when you search for "TURBO" on Zuwharrie most people find very little info or pic's and most of the posts are people asking "how do I do it" or "who has done it". This lack of info and pic's is not really helping those people seriously  interested in turbocharging their Samurai, Sidekick, or Tracker and we are going to change that. Here is what I have been calling my "junkyard" turbo setup as it was swapped in as fast as I could (took about 4-5 hours) to run it in a Tough Truck event a few months ago:


The motor has approximately 30,000 miles on it and is a JDM (Japanese import motor) and has a 1995 intake manifold and accessories, wiring and computer to control it.


The first pic was before I added the larger air filter up and away from water and mud and in this pic you can see the intake running over to the pass side fenderwell. The wiring to the mass-air sensor had to be extended and the 2 1/4" exhaust tubing was used to connect the turbo inlet to the mass-air then just a coupler to the air intake.....and yes that is a Ford Super Duty after market center cap with a K & N filter installed on it....works good!


This is a SAAB turbo with a custom made turbo exhaust manifold & SAAB intercooler. The piping is economical and easy to bend exhaust tubing with radiator hose and silicone couplers.


The blow-off valve (BOV) is a cheap one off eGay (will be upgraded soon) and the insulation is a basic header wrap material to help insulate the intake piping directly above the manifold from the heat. 


The fuel pump is the stock 1.6 16 valve model out of a Tracker tank installed in the Samurai tank and the blue circular thing is a Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator (RRFPR) that increases the fuel pressure as the boost increases so that it supplys enough fuel. A SAFC air/fuel controller is in the near future for it to help optimize the power and make it run even better.

Nothing has really been cleaned up on the motor as I have been experimenting with vacuum line sources and the RRFPR as well as a few other things. The mud is from the last Mud Bog at Gravedigger's and TurboZuki got 1st place in the 4 & 6 Cylinder classes (look under "Off-Road Pic's and Video" for some cool action shots and video's).

The Samurai is completely street friendly and still gets 20+ MPG, but I choose to run the higher octane fuel with the turbo. None of the low-end torque/power has been lost and there is almost no noticeable turbo lag at all. The Turbo isn not even noticeable for daily driving unless you punch it to pass someone or really accelerate from a stop light. I have had it up to 100 MPH and it was still accelerating! I'd like to take it somewhere to test the maximum speed without fear of a wreckless driving ticket! So far other than the cost and time involved in swapping on a turbo I cannot say there are many negatives to this swap, but no matter what it has to be tuned properly otherwise you will create problems for yourself. It is FASTER THAN ANY OTHER SAMURAI I HAVE EVER DRIVEN!  Power estimate is well over 150 HP and I will take it to the dyno when I have time....sometime after GonZookin.

GOT QUESTIONS? I am sure I didn't cover everything..... Ask away and maybe we will end up with a "Turbo FAQ" or at least some decent info in a searchable thread.

Sean (Addicted to TURBO's!) DeVinney
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« Last Edit: Saturday, July 28, 2012, 04:33:01 PM by beekiller »
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Offline dwrlhc

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again...nice! although an intercooler is probably not really needed at low boost levels. for inquiring minds, what plate are you running in your vortech FMU?? 10:1, 12:1??? also any tricks to the wastegate?? how much boost?

Offline MN_samurai

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that is sweet!  thanks for sharing.
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Offline zuki sportsman

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You should get a Boost/Vac gauge and Air-fuel ratio gauge. It is important to know what boost you're running at. I believe that G16A's would run 6psi boost safely on stock internals. AFR gauge is very important, you would know whether or not you're leaning out at high rpm,etc.

Its a great project nonetheless 8) 8) 8)

Also, read up on this forum http://www.teamswift.net/viewforum.php?f=6 [red_s]

Btw, what size exhaust piping you have?

Love it to see when someone turbo a G16A ;D

Offline zuku26

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I was under the impression that the 16v was not the prefered motor to boost, due to the weaker internals. I know you mentioned that this motor is a JDM, and for some reason most JDM motors come a bit of the beefier side. Is that true in this case as well.
My plan has been to swap in a swift GT motor (due to the forged internals) and boost it. I happen to have an extra t25 turbo laying around after upgrading to a t28rs on my mazdaspeed protege.
If the 16v can handle the boost I'm thinking I'd boost 8psi max, then that would be a better swap since they are much more plentiful motors.
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Offline aftermarket4x4

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again...nice! although an intercooler is probably not really needed at low boost levels. for inquiring minds, what plate are you running in your vortech FMU?? 10:1, 12:1??? also any tricks to the wastegate?? how much boost?

I have been driving it on the road every day and at first I had the intercooler up in the fenderwell and it did not get much air flow, but now with it up in front of the radiator it does get more flow and it made a difference on the highway for sure.  I am running the factory wastegate setting which allows for 7PSI of boost with this turbo and ther are no wastegate tricks added. The Vortech RRFPR is the 10-1.

You should get a Boost/Vac gauge and Air-fuel ratio gauge. It is important to know what boost you're running at. I believe that G16A's would run 6psi boost safely on stock internals. AFR gauge is very important, you would know whether or not you're leaning out at high rpm,etc.

Its a great project nonetheless 8) 8) 8)

Also, read up on this forum http://www.teamswift.net/viewforum.php?f=6 [red_s]

Btw, what size exhaust piping you have?

Love it to see when someone turbo a G16A ;D

I actually have an AEM UEGO that utilizes the wideband O2 and gives an accurate reading of the Air/Fuel ratio. Before the Vortech RRFPR was installed I was running 14 - 15 AFR under full boost and with it I am running down between 11-13 under full boost....... it does vary depending on the temperature, timing, etc. At the moment the exhaust is still the 2.25" with Dynomax Super Turbo muffler that I previously had on it, but plans to upgrade to a 2.5" are in the future as the downpipe is a 2.5" diameter.


Sean
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Offline Skyman

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Thanks for all the information, I've been waiting for someone to put something  like this together. Totally sweet, ma lot of people have talked about a simple boost setup,but you actually put the work into it.

Major thanks, now I know what my next  project is going to be. ;D
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Offline rangerscott

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Easy on the boost.

This guy transplanted a 16v in his kick and turbo'd it.   He made a VERY NICE exhuast manifold and made a hybrid intake.  Very nice install but he ate a head gasket.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315025
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Offline slowmotion4x4

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Cool, I have been looking at the same thing. My neighbor was a Saab mechanic and has a few small turbos as spares for his. We have talked about setting mine up before. He has all the know how for this one. I had a 79 mustang with the factory 1.3 turboed and no intercooler. Would run as fast as a 5.0
I hope you keep up dating here. Sounds great. Especially since I am now geared for the freeway  ;D

Offline aftermarket4x4

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Easy on the boost.

This guy transplanted a 16v in his kick and turbo'd it.   He made a VERY NICE exhuast manifold and made a hybrid intake.  Very nice install but he ate a head gasket.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315025

I haven't see that thread in a long time. It was bookmarked until my hard drive crashed a few months ago.  I have e-mailed back and forth with Baldur and Jardmuth and if I remember correctly they had Turbine Tech in Canada make the exhaust manifolds for their Zuk's. I had one of the guys that worked there make a log manifold for a VW and they do great work, but they aren't cheap.  As for the head gaskets, well I am not worried about it at all with only 7 PSI of boost. Baldur has a Kick with 15 PSI of boost and the head gasket's holding up fine. Thie JDM motor I have is strong and every time I run it hard it dosent even hiccup and the power is absolutely amazing. Lots of friends are trying to get me to run more boost, but until I get a SAFC instaled and get the tuning perfect I will not do it. Besides it's plenty fast now!

I was under the impression that the 16v was not the prefered motor to boost, due to the weaker internals. I know you mentioned that this motor is a JDM, and for some reason most JDM motors come a bit of the beefier side. Is that true in this case as well.
My plan has been to swap in a swift GT motor (due to the forged internals) and boost it. I happen to have an extra t25 turbo laying around after upgrading to a t28rs on my mazdaspeed protege.
If the 16v can handle the boost I'm thinking I'd boost 8psi max, then that would be a better swap since they are much more plentiful motors.


I cannot say that the JDM motors are any "beefier" than the US motors and every long block I have seen looks identical to the US models and also, the later model 1.6 liter motors (approx 1993 on up) had stronger cranks. The main benifit is that the JDM motors have low miles (30K - 40K) on them. Like I mentioned above, Baldur has shown that the 16V can handle up to 15 PSI of boost....even as a daily driver without grenading it, but you have to tune it properly throughout the RPM band and that is VERY important!!! Mine is about 80-90% tuned and will be closer to 100% tuned properly when I get the SAFC on it.

When I put this Turbo setup together I tried to use only the minimum items that I though I needed to get it installed and running properly and then added and changed things as I thought it was necessary. So far I have about $1000 and ALOT of time in to this Turbo setup which is really cheap when you  consider I have gained 50-70 HP! Most people add a header ($259.99), a 2.25" exhaust w/turbo muffler, high flow CAT ($250), K & N filter ($50), performance cam ($150), high performance plugs/wires/coils and MSD Box ($250-$350) and after all this you have spent over $1000 and only get............10-15% more horsepower! Turbo is definitely the best bang for the buck for the Do-It-Yourselfer!

Sean (Ready to race?) DeVinney
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Offline Fastspec2

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Done similar with a 1.3 blow through carbed with a 13b dsm turbo. That setup ran 125HP at the rear tires witch were 33" boggers. One recomendation I have is running the bov in a recirc fashion. As the pic shows it dumps to atmo. this useually causes excessive fuel on a drop throttle shift. If you think about it, the maf measures the air but then it magically disapears out the bov. The fuel still makes it into the engine though so it goes way rich. A 1g dsm BOV is a great valve at a low price and was actually calibrated to be a real recirc valve not just a pressure relief system. Also, you mentioned an safc, Useing that I would ditch the fmu. Use an appropriate injector for the HP and let it buck. A boost timing controller would also come in handy as it will let you run advanced at light load and retarded under lots of boost. msd 6btm or similar.

Offline aftermarket4x4

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Done similar with a 1.3 blow through carbed with a 13b dsm turbo. That setup ran 125HP at the rear tires witch were 33" boggers. One recomendation I have is running the bov in a recirc fashion. As the pic shows it dumps to atmo. this useually causes excessive fuel on a drop throttle shift. If you think about it, the maf measures the air but then it magically disapears out the bov. The fuel still makes it into the engine though so it goes way rich. A 1g dsm BOV is a great valve at a low price and was actually calibrated to be a real recirc valve not just a pressure relief system. Also, you mentioned an safc, Useing that I would ditch the fmu. Use an appropriate injector for the HP and let it buck. A boost timing controller would also come in handy as it will let you run advanced at light load and retarded under lots of boost. msd 6btm or similar.

I picked up a really nice RFL blow-off valve from a friend and it has a recirc tube already attached so I will install it and the APEXI SAFC I picked up today. I have also looked into larger injectors and what I have now is 18 pound (190 cc) on the stock 16V and the optimum I am told is to go with about a 225 cc injector since the computer sould stil control it properly. So far I have not found the desired injector, but then I have not looked very hard yet. I will see how this weekends tuning goes then decide what I need to change next.


Sean
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Offline Mope

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Really neat, I don't know much about turbo'ing, but would something like this work on a TBI motor? The little bit I've picked up on says probably not. Really makes me wish I would have done the 16v instead of the 8v now!!

Offline rangerscott

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I'd like to find 8 nozzle injectors for the 16v.  So far every injector/s I've found suz/geo/toy range from 1 - 4 nozzle.
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Offline CMillet86

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I wonder would one of the manifolds on Ebay for the Swift GTI DOHC head fit a SOHC 16 Valve head?

Offline Skyman

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I think a lot of people have been waiting for something like this to be done, and shown. A lot us have wanted to put a turbo, or a blower on a 1.3 or 1.6
 
Myself I figured if it was kept simple, and to a low amount of boost (what you are running is perfect) would add enough torque and horsepower to make it really worthwhile. It seems like you've found the right amount of boost to make it worthwhile, while keeping it small enough to be financially practical(withoug having to build the engine for boost)

I am curious, do you have any pictures of the exhaust manifold you made?
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Offline aftermarket4x4

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Really neat, I don't know much about turbo'ing, but would something like this work on a TBI motor? The little bit I've picked up on says probably not. Really makes me wish I would have done the 16v instead of the 8v now!!

Yes, a TBI motor can be turbo'd and so can a carbed motor as it is all about forcing more air into the motor....aka: "forced induction".


I'd like to find 8 nozzle injectors for the 16v.  So far every injector/s I've found suz/geo/toy range from 1 - 4 nozzle.
Some of the guys on the Swift GTI board have run Eclipse injectors, but from what I have seen they are so large (approx 300cc's - 450cc's each) you would need a seperate fuel control computer like Megasquirt. After speaking with a a few turdo Guru's my understanding is that anything over 23-24 pound (approximately 225cc's) cannot properly be controlled by the computer and MS or another fuel control computer must be used, because they are so much larger thant he 18 pound (190cc) injectors that come stock on the 1.6 16 valve.


I wonder would one of the manifolds on Ebay for the Swift GTI DOHC head fit a SOHC 16 Valve head?

The manifold is totally home built with 1/4 wall pipe weld "L"'s, the custom 1/2" thick flanges I sell, and the T-25 flange for the turbo mount. No one makes a turbo manifold set up for a 1.6 16 valve that I have ever found. The 1.3 8 valve, 1.6 8 valve, 1.3 16 valve GTI are totally different so they cannot be used. If there is an easier way than having a manifold custom made I'd love to find a shortcut. Here is one of the manifolds I had a place up in Canada build about a year ago for a VW turbo:



This is a log manifold, but the one I have on my Samurai is actually a semi-equal length manifold. For the lower boost I am making I don't think it makes a noticeable difference which is used. For the installation, well it was simple once I got the orientation of the turbo correct :D


I read somewhere that there is a Honda 1.6 turbo manifold out there that you can remove the flange from and weld on the 1.6 16 valve flange and it will work ...... because I read it on the internet so it must be true!   :P

Sean
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Offline Fastspec2

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wrecking yard lincoln mark8 injectors are 24pound. about 230cc. Also score a 2 bar map sensor out of a factory turbo car, like a typhoon grand national ect. I have better luck running the safc off of a map input and calling it the tp sensor input in the safc. So your hi and lo throttle points are boost related. The bigger injectors are a set percentage larger lets say 20% for maths sake, so useing the map sensor output as the throttle scale, your hi throttle point would be be about 1" of vacume and up into boost. your low throttle point would be set very low so anytime the car is running your running into the low throttle adjustment. Then on your lo throttle scale set up the whole scale a set percentage, to start, the percentage of offset between the 2 injector sizes, or in our fictitious case -20%. Now this will give you stock (or really close to it) fueling for off boost situations. As far as on boost goes, get a wide band and tune afr accordingly. 11-1 is a good safe number on boost.
Things to keep in mind on a safc.
most pcms will learn o2 correction and apply it to the fuel trims. I don't know suzuki programing but I bet what it learns at idle and part throttle it applies everywhere, so you HAVE to get the idle and part throttle as close as possible so you have low trim adjustment. If you have some way of logging or monitoring this it will help alot. You can get the map sensor transfer function from a gm 2 bar (vacume to 14.7 PSI) from a FSM or online somewhere I'm sure. But a safe bet is 2.5 volts is going to be 0. Also I'd ditch the fmu as it may get difficult to tune around.
Running larger injectors will require you to pull fuel in alot of places, pulling maf signal to compensate. In MOST pcms (again I don't know suki software) timing is related to maf signal. Nissan calls it TP, ford calls it load, ect. if you pull maf signal, alot of times it will cause the pcm to run off of a lower "load" table. MOST pcms have more timing at lower load, so you might run into a situation were you are running too far advanced, especially if you are running huge injectors and therefore pulling ALOT of maf signal, thus scaleing load way down.

Offline Mope

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wrecking yard lincoln mark8 injectors are 24pound. about 230cc. Also score a 2 bar map sensor out of a factory turbo car, like a typhoon grand national ect. I have better luck running the safc off of a map input and calling it the tp sensor input in the safc. So your hi and lo throttle points are boost related. The bigger injectors are a set percentage larger lets say 20% for maths sake, so useing the map sensor output as the throttle scale, your hi throttle point would be be about 1" of vacume and up into boost. your low throttle point would be set very low so anytime the car is running your running into the low throttle adjustment. Then on your lo throttle scale set up the whole scale a set percentage, to start, the percentage of offset between the 2 injector sizes, or in our fictitious case -20%. Now this will give you stock (or really close to it) fueling for off boost situations. As far as on boost goes, get a wide band and tune afr accordingly. 11-1 is a good safe number on boost.
Things to keep in mind on a safc.
most pcms will learn o2 correction and apply it to the fuel trims. I don't know suzuki programing but I bet what it learns at idle and part throttle it applies everywhere, so you HAVE to get the idle and part throttle as close as possible so you have low trim adjustment. If you have some way of logging or monitoring this it will help alot. You can get the map sensor transfer function from a gm 2 bar (vacume to 14.7 PSI) from a FSM or online somewhere I'm sure. But a safe bet is 2.5 volts is going to be 0. Also I'd ditch the fmu as it may get difficult to tune around.
Running larger injectors will require you to pull fuel in alot of places, pulling maf signal to compensate. In MOST pcms (again I don't know suki software) timing is related to maf signal. Nissan calls it TP, ford calls it load, ect. if you pull maf signal, alot of times it will cause the pcm to run off of a lower "load" table. MOST pcms have more timing at lower load, so you might run into a situation were you are running too far advanced, especially if you are running huge injectors and therefore pulling ALOT of maf signal, thus scaleing load way down.


 :o I need to do some reading [idea]

Offline rangerscott

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I just want 8 nozzle injectors for the better fuel/air mixture they provide.
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