Author Topic: Help removing broken hub bolt! tried almost everything  (Read 2102 times)

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Offline Leo

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Hi, all the bolts for the manual locking hub were broken and I managed to get 5 out of 6 out. As always, one have to give you a hard time!

I first tried using a reverse rotation bit and then a screw extractor. All 5 came out easy but on the last one, the extractor broke inside the bolt. I tried drilling it out but it seams to be too hard of a material. I drilled a smaller hole right beside the broken extractor and used a smaller extractor while applying a little bit of heat, nothing happened, tried again and the extractor broke and now I have no way to get them out or drill thru them. I then used my welder to build up material on top of the bolt in order to try get enough material so I can weld a nut to it but that broke too.

What can I do?

Thanks.

Offline hargraves

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you still got a few options.  have you tried using a small chisel.  thats what i always used when i broke them.     if not see if you can find a new hub cheap.    you can always drill  and tap it to the next size bolt too.   thats what i did with this http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2073/.f     i think you could modify a stock lockout to use them. 

Offline outsydthbox

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     That's a real bummer...With the (hardened)extractors broken in the bolt, you can't hardly drill them out. I can't usually drill out a bolt without getting into the female threads, which interferes with removal anyway. I don't see how you could put another one next to it without getting into them.
     I'm with HARGRAVES...replace it, then if you can salvage it, you'll have a spare.
Before you judge a man, you must first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you judge him, you'll be a MILE away...AND you'll have his SHOES!

Offline skyhiranger

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Keep trying to weld a nut onto the end of the broken off bolt.  The bolt doesn't need to be above the surface of the wheel hub to weld a nut on......just don't weld the wheel hub.....with a wire welder it isn't really too hard....just concentrate the weld on the center of the broken off bolt and let the nut fill with weld....let it cool a few minutes, then turn the nut and the bolt should come with it.  I had to do 5 outta 6 bolts on a wheel hub that way once.....worked great.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3
Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96
Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97
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2.8.13

Offline TRAILMASTER C

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Keep welding and break off it will  start to take bits of the easyouts off and it will come out !!!I do this all the time at my work really a pain but keep at it!!I ALWAYS tell my customers DO NOT try the easyout bring it to me first and avoid the extra cost of me having to remove both the Easyout and the bolt!!I had a customer that had done what you did and took me about an hr to remove but I got them out!! If that don't work I have had to use a torch and blow the bolt and easyout out U must be carefull and not really mess up the part but it can be done!
Good luck,
 Bradley C
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Be Safe HAVE FUNNNNNNN!!

Offline TONY ZUKINI

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Hi, all the bolts for the manual locking hub were broken and I managed to get 5 out of 6 out. As always, one have to give you a hard time!

I first tried using a reverse rotation bit and then a screw extractor. All 5 came out easy but on the last one, the extractor broke inside the bolt. I tried drilling it out but it seams to be too hard of a material. I drilled a smaller hole right beside the broken extractor and used a smaller extractor while applying a little bit of heat, nothing happened, tried again and the extractor broke and now I have no way to get them out or drill thru them. I then used my welder to build up material on top of the bolt in order to try get enough material so I can weld a nut to it but that broke too.

What can I do?

Thanks.


a standard drill bit will not drill the extractor bit.  going to need the titanium drill bit, but it will drill it out :) :) :) :)

Offline 1madzuk

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I have always used a small punch or chisel to remove the bolts. Very seldom do I use a drill. But when I do. I center punch it very clearly and drill slow. Use a lot of WD-40 and try not to force the broken bolt out. So I don't break the easy out off. You can apply a little heat to area to help losen the broken bolt. 
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Offline TONY ZUKINI

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I have always used a small punch or chisel to remove the bolts. Very seldom do I use a drill. But when I do. I center punch it very clearly and drill slow. Use a lot of WD-40 and try not to force the broken bolt out. So I don't break the easy out off. You can apply a little heat to area to help losen the broken bolt. 

my old man taught me that heat does wonders on rusted bolts....
some of the best advice i get as a kid ;)  if theres a bolt you think might snap
heat it before you break it

Offline 1madzuk

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Yes heat in moderation can be your bestest friend !!! ;D
86 soft top-6:4 t-case, 5:13's,spooled/spooled,Petro's CV carb.Kong
86 Tin Top-6.5 t/case, 5:13 Diffs,Spooled/spooled,Kong.1.6 8V CV carb
MAD Zuks=Modified & Aggressively Driven
                        SUZUKI SAMURAI

Offline Leo

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Thanks to all for the replies!

I tried the heating method but didn't work and the used the welder (more heat) and It didn't work either.

I made a small grove on the side of the bolt and used a small chisel to try to turn the bolt but nothing.

The bolt have being soaked in PB blaster for at least 2 Weeks so penetrating oil is not working.

Tried titanium and cobalt bits but they won't drill the easy outs  >:(

So I think the options are:

- Retry the welding method (spent about 1 hour and 8 nuts  >:( )

- Try to find a diamond / tungsten carbide and try to drill it out and the use a heli-coil to replace the threads.

- Buy the upgraded 12.9 bolts (which I will be doing no matter what) and run only 5 bolts instead of the 6.

- Buy a new hub  :\\\'(

Offline Leo

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Keep welding and break off it will  start to take bits of the easyouts off and it will come out !!!I do this all the time at my work really a pain but keep at it!!I ALWAYS tell my customers DO NOT try the easyout bring it to me first and avoid the extra cost of me having to remove both the Easyout and the bolt!!I had a customer that had done what you did and took me about an hr to remove but I got them out!! If that don't work I have had to use a torch and blow the bolt and easyout out U must be carefull and not really mess up the part but it can be done!
Good luck,
 Bradley C

Hey Bradley do you think a small pen style torch will work to break the bolt without putting too much heat to the hub?
You only need to heat it until it breaks or you need a quick change in temperature?
Thanks

Offline Merlin93

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More useful hub bolt discussion at: http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=29595
After reading stories like this, I'm likin' the McMaster zinc-coated class 12.9 hub bolts more and more.

Offline skyhiranger

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Thanks to all for the replies!

I tried the heating method but didn't work and the used the welder (more heat) and It didn't work either.

I made a small grove on the side of the bolt and used a small chisel to try to turn the bolt but nothing.

The bolt have being soaked in PB blaster for at least 2 Weeks so penetrating oil is not working.

Tried titanium and cobalt bits but they won't drill the easy outs  >:(

So I think the options are:

- Retry the welding method (spent about 1 hour and 8 nuts  >:( )

- Try to find a diamond / tungsten carbide and try to drill it out and the use a heli-coil to replace the threads.

- Buy the upgraded 12.9 bolts (which I will be doing no matter what) and run only 5 bolts instead of the 6.

- Buy a new hub  :\\\'(


Try the welding of a nut again.  Since you have been soaking the bolt, be sure to clean the end of the bolt, so the weld will stick to it.....either wire brush the end of the bolt good and/or use some brake cleaner to clean all the PB off of the bolt.  The weld won't stick to the bolt very well, if it has PB/dirt/oil/grease/rust on it.
It shouldn't be that hard to get the weld to stick to the end of the bolt.  What kind of welder are you using and what setting are you using?  I use a 175 amp wire welder (220V), and set the weld range on a middle or just above middle setting.  Occasionally, I have a nut that doesn't stick to the bolt very well, but 90% of the time it works the first time.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3
Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96
Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97
Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers

2.8.13

Offline 87_bigbadzuk

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I used a center punch amd bfh on all mine but I also don't locktite my hub bolts I put antiseize on them just for that matter.

Offline truly_5150

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try a small masonary bit, drill a small pilot hole in the broken bolt with a regular bit, just enuff for the masonary bit to fit in(the tighter the beter) take a hammer and smack the masonary bit harden enuff to make it bite into the broken bolt, then take a cordless drill put it in reverese, and very gently walk the bolt out.
this method works really good, used it a few times on projects
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Offline outsydthbox

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     DO NOT USE BRAKE CLEANER PRIOR TO WELDING !!!!!!!!!!

Especially if using ARGON as a shielding gas.  ONE tiny wiff could KILL YOU !!!!

and NO I don't know this first hand....or i'd be dead ::)  PLEASE READ THIS !!!

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm
« Last Edit: Monday, January 04, 2010, 07:34:05 PM by outsydthbox »
Before you judge a man, you must first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you judge him, you'll be a MILE away...AND you'll have his SHOES!

Offline skyhiranger

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     DO NOT USE BRAKE CLEANER PRIOR TO WELDING !!!!!!!!!!

Especially if using ARGON as a shielding gas.  ONE tiny wiff could KILL YOU !!!!

and NO I don't know this first hand....or i'd be dead ::)  PLEASE READ THIS !!!

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

I frequently use brake cleaner prior to welding.....

#1.....I use CO2 as a shielding gas.
#2.....I blow dry the metal with compressed air before I weld.
#3.....Unless you are using the exact same welding setup as in the link, and you don't bother to evaporate the brake cleaner prior to welding, then you don't have anything to worry about.
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3
Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96
Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97
Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers

2.8.13

Offline outsydthbox

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I frequently use brake cleaner prior to welding.....

#1.....I use CO2 as a shielding gas.
#2.....I blow dry the metal with compressed air before I weld.
#3.....Unless you are using the exact same welding setup as in the link, and you don't bother to evaporate the brake cleaner prior to welding, then you don't have anything to worry about.


So, you don't think it's good information...on the chance that  #1....you, or someone else "might be using Argon & brake cleaner?   #2....You have just advised someone else to clean up penetrating oil from DEEP around a bolt, where it would be difficult to "evaporate" the brake cleaner?

It doesn't have to be the exact same welding setup. just welding "heat" + "argon" = phosgene


FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH
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Offline skyhiranger

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So, you don't think it's good information...on the chance that  #1....you, or someone else "might be using Argon & brake cleaner?   #2....You have just advised someone else to clean up penetrating oil from DEEP around a bolt, where it would be difficult to "evaporate" the brake cleaner?

It doesn't have to be the exact same welding setup. just welding "heat" + "argon" = phosgene


FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH

I didn't say it wasn't good info....but I didn't see any reason to get all dramatic and say  "DO NOT USE BRAKE CLEANER PRIOR TO WELDING !!!!!!!!!!". ::)  You could have simply said....."make sure the brake cleaner is fully evaporated before you weld".  Then it would make no difference what gas was used while welding, since there would be no brake cleaner present to react with it.
The brake cleaner/phosgene issue only applies to the exact scenario in the link.....unevaporated brake cleaner+argon+heat.....if any 1 of the 3 is not present, then there is no issue.

And seeing as how the bolt was stuck (and still is stuck) in the hub.....obviously the brake cleaner is not going to get "DEEP" around the bolt.  And even if it would/could.....compressed air will blow it out and/or dry it almost instantly.  Plus, someone would have to be using argon as a shielding gas for it to even become an issue anyway.

Again, not saying the link didn't contain good info.....just didn't see any reason to get all dramatic over it.




PS....DON'T GO SWIMMING IN THE OCEAN....THE SHARKS WILL EAT YOU!!!!!!!!! ;)
Samurais...86,87x3,88x3,88.5x6,90,91,92x3
Sidekicks...89x2,90,91,94x3,95,96
Trackers...90x4,91,92x3,93x3,94x5,95x2,96,97
Sold...88.5 Samurai; 89x2,92x2,93x2,96x2 Sidekicks; 91,94x2,98 Trackers

2.8.13

Offline Merlin93

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....DON'T GO SWIMMING IN THE OCEAN....THE SHARKS WILL EAT YOU!!!!!!!!!  ;)   

Now you tell me! 
I've been diving in/under the shark-infested Pacific Ocean since 1979. 
Tell me it's not too late to rectify the error of my ways! 

Stock hub bolts are M8x25, head-stamped "7"; 7T corresponds to metric class 8.8 (SAE grade 5), which is categorized as "medium strength". Stronger bolts, metric class 10.9 (SAE grade 8) are readily available at: http://www.nutsandbolts.com/bolts-metric-flange-bolts-jis-c-31_161.html.
Even stronger, metric class 12.9 (174Ksi!), socket head bolts are available from McMaster (#95263A633) and they're zinc coated, tumbled not plated, for rust prevention. Some Samurai suppliers have them (class 12.9) too, but not zinc coated.
If you need strength AND bling, ARP sells an exotic high-strength stainless, class 10.9+ (better than US grade 8). Buy 'em at totallystainless.com (#1-2234). They're strong and pretty, but not cheap.

You have choices. No need to tolerate wimpy, rusty hub bolts. I'd try these LONG before drilling and tapping for larger hub bolts.  I like the self-centering action of the cone washers and want to keep them. 

Torque specs vary widely, depending on the source. One Jeep reference I found and saved, for 8mm, specifies 18 ft-lb for class 8.8, 23 ft-lb for class 10.9 and 27 ft-lb for class 12.9 (all in cast iron; in aluminum it's 22% less). Other references quote cadmium and waxed finishes as several ft-lbs less, and zinc'd surfaces several ft-lbs more. Most fastener torque goes into overcoming friction, which is such a large variable that it's difficult to accurately predict bolt tension, which is what you really want and need. Technique counts for a lot as well. Sliding friction is less than static friction, so make sure the bolt is turning as you reach your chosen torque value, or you'll not hit your target consistently.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, January 05, 2010, 11:29:39 AM by Merlin93 »