Sidekick 1.6 16 valve problem

[fourwheeler]

Just when I get my Samurai all squared away I bought a 95 Sidekick 1.6 16 valve. It idled a little rough so I did a tune-up on it. Idles bad,but runs good down the road. I did notice that the fireing order was different. Instead of 1 3 4 2 mine is 1 2 4 3. If I put it to the correct fireing order it has no power at and backfires through the intake. I have a code 51 EGR,pulled the EGR vavle and cleaned it,did the vacum test on it out of the truck and put it back in and cleared the code. then today light came back on again,tried a vacum test while in the truck and no movement of the valve. New one will be here tomorrow. But have no idea why it idles like crap and the different fireing order. Any Ideas?

[toykick]

I have read that a bad EGR valve will make your motor idle rough.

[fourwheeler]

quess I'll find out later this morning,have a new one comming in.

[skyhiranger]

16V distributors spin counter clockwise, not clockwise like the 1.6 8V trackick and the 1.3 samurai engines.   You were taking that into account, right?
The EGR code is probably because the EGR passages in the engine itself are clogged/restricted.  You may be able to get by with pulling the EGR valve and cleaning the engine passages with a stiff wire, lots of brake cleaner/carb cleaner and some compressed air. 
There are several threads on here discussing the EGR, the EGR code, and the passage cleaning......do a seach and you can read for hours about it.

[fourwheeler]

Ok pulled the egr valve that I cleaned and put back in. It worked but I went and changed it anyway. Cleared the codes and took it for a run. Everything was fine light stayed off until I went to talke it out later. Light on again and running rough. Went through the wireing diagram and after finding out the cruise doesn't work either and with the idle dropping. I'm kind of leaning towards the ECM,is it possible? I'd hate to buy a new one and have it do the same thing.

[skyhiranger]

Ok pulled the egr valve that I cleaned and put back in. It worked but I went and changed it anyway. Cleared the codes and took it for a run. Everything was fine light stayed off until I went to talke it out later. Light on again and running rough. Went through the wireing diagram and after finding out the cruise doesn't work either and with the idle dropping. I'm kind of leaning towards the ECM,is it possible? I'd hate to buy a new one and have it do the same thing.

I doubt it is the ECM. 95s usually don't have ECM problems.
I would still say it is the EGR passages in the head and intake are clogged or restricted. The symptoms you are having (EGR code, rough running, low idle) are typical of EGR passage restrictions.
How did you clean the passages exactly?

[fourwheeler]

Throttle body cleaner and a small flat scredriver into the openings behind the egr. On the one closest to the block I got NO blow back from the cleaner, but the outside one kept blowing back and the screwdriver only goes in a short distance. I was just thinking the hole was to small for it. I was reading in the arcives about the tubes too<i wonder if they are clogged. When I first pulled the egr it wouldn't move at all until I sprayede it good and then took a pic and scraped the inside.Need to get this fixed fast for inspection in Maryland. Next week I go under the knife for my left wrist and won't be doing much for awhile after that.

[skyhiranger]

The one closest to the block goes to the exhaust manifold.  It usually doesn't clog, or get restricted like the other one tend to do.  If you pull the intake manifold, the passage across the back of the head is straight clear over to the exhaust manifold, so it is easy to clean.
The other one goes into the intake manifold and into each of the intake runners.  So that should give you an idea on how far whatever you stick in there needs to go.  This is the one that is hard to clean and usually gets restricted or blocked completely.  It makes a slight curve, a short distance in from the EGR valve.  So you will have to use something flexible to poke in there to clean it.  I have used a thicker piece of solid wire.  I sprayed in the passage with carb cleaner (I usually use brake cleaner, but I was out), poked the wire in the hole a few times, to loosen the stuff up and/or break through the restriction, then blew compressed air into the passage.  I did this numerous times and used about a can and a half of carb cleaner...until I wasn't getting much blowback and what was blowing back was relatively clean carb cleaner.  After doing this the engine will smoke A LOT, while it burns all the crap you blew into the intake.  Another alternative is to pull the intake off and clean it....might be easier/faster to do that.  Some of the intakes are 2-piece, so you can take them apart and it should make them a little easier to clean.

[fourwheeler]

Ok I'll try this today. I'll let you know what I find and end up with.

[fourwheeler]

ok the tube is now clean,took two hours just to get through that. The intake ports have been cleaned as well as the spot just behind the throttle body. It's done 8 cycles of key on and driving. Light and code gone. But now it surges while driving and seems to have lost power. I'm going to check the o2 sensor this morning. I figure with all the junk I pushed into the system it had to get some of it. Question is can I use a throttle body cleaner on it along with a brass wire brush to clean it without harming it? I'm thinking that might also be idle problem and the surgering that was there prior to egr service. Thoughts anyone?

[fourwheeler]

Ok four day update. Check engine light is still out and no codes being thrown at all. But it's still running rough at idle and wants to almost stall then. going down the road it's fine. Thoughts?

[skyhiranger]

Have you checked the timing?  The spec is probably 5*.  And the distributor should be a near the center of the adjustment range, when it is set at 5*.
Have you checked the rotor position on the distributor shaft?  It is possible with some rotors to put them on in the wrong position (they will fit on the shaft in all 3 positions).  Check out the following thread, I have some pics on there that should help you verify it is in the correct position.  http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,100397.0.html
Have you verified the crank to cam timing is correct (meaning you are not off a tooth on the timing belt)?  It sounds like it has idled bad ever since you have had it, so the previous owner(s) may have changed the timing belt and got off a tooth.
Have you checked and adjusted the TPS, to make sure it is good and adjusted correctly?  Have you checked all the other sensors (IAT, MAF, etc.) to make sure they all test within spec?

[fourwheeler]

The IAC checked out at 12.8 (11-14) even though it checked fine,could there still be a problem considering all the gunk that was in the EGR tube and the throttle body? Couldn't find my feeler gauges so I couldn't check that. I did find a bad heater hose and seeing as the IAC needs hot water I'm going to give it a good run tomorrow and see what happens. Another thing I noticed is that when I go to take off in 1st it gives a little shudder.

[skyhiranger]

The IAC checked out at 12.8 (11-14) even though it checked fine,could there still be a problem considering all the gunk that was in the EGR tube and the throttle body? Couldn't find my feeler gauges so I couldn't check that. I did find a bad heater hose and seeing as the IAC needs hot water I'm going to give it a good run tomorrow and see what happens. Another thing I noticed is that when I go to take off in 1st it gives a little shudder.

Any gunk that was in the EGR passages and had been loosened up should have passed through the engine by now and not be affecting anything.  When I cleaned the EGR passages on mine, I pushed a lot, and I mean a lot, of gunk into the intake.  It smoked very heavily for proably a good mile or so, then once it got everything burnt off, it didn't smoke anymore and has continued to run fine.
Is the CEL staying off now?  If so, I'd say the EGR system is ok.
The shudder is probably the clutch ( I guess you have a 5 speed, you haven't said).  I have one that does that too.....the clutch and/or flywheel needs to be looked at, but it hasn't bothered me enough yet to drop the tranny.  If I don't rev the engine too much (like keeping it at a constant 800 RPMs or so), when letting out on the clutch, it won't shudder.
I'd check out all the other sensors and make sure they are all adjusted to spec and let us know what you find.

[ScotY]

I did find a bad heater hose and seeing as the IAC needs hot water I'm going to give it a good run tomorrow and see what happens.

Does the IAC actually NEED hot water to function properly?  From what I've read so far, it doesn't sound like it does.

Any updates on solving your problems?