setting pinion angle

[slimstracker]

do u guys set it up with the weight of the truck loaded or unloaded on the axle?, and do u do it with or without ths ds spacer on?

[Skyman]

For SPOA we just put them parallel to the stock spring perches. You can't go wrong that way. it gets the pinion right where it is supposed to be.

You can rotate them so the pinion is two degrees down from parallel (stock) To make sure that under acceleration, the pinions right on(eliminating vibes from axle wrap) , but no more than two degrees.

I myself put them parallel, and have no issues or complaints. If you are running a stock shaft the best thing to do is just line them up parallel to the original perches, it puts the pinion in the stock location.

[slimstracker]

i built a kick hybrid housing and it doesnt have any perches on it at all, the stock perches were cut off along time ago

[prowler]

measure angle of the t-case output flange with an angle finder and put the pinion at that same angle

[zukinstien]

measure angle of the t-case output flange with an angle finder and put the pinion at that same angle

You cant make it perfectly straight up to the tcase out put flange because this will not lube the u joint properly. They need a couple degrees of misallignment so they a lubed properly. So figure out angle up to tcase flange and subtract 2 degrees and weld on perches.

[fordcustom]

when i did my tracker rear.. i built my perches on 2.5" pipe (spread open a litlle) let the zuk down on it and rotated the axel where i wanted it..

[my996duc1]

when i did my tracker rear.. i built my perches on 2.5" pipe (spread open a litlle) let the zuk down on it and rotated the axel where i wanted it..

PERFECT !
That is what I need to do. I was wondering how I could get it all set up and try it out without having to use the trial and error method on welding and cutting the perches... Right now I am running a shim but next time I have the axles off I am going to use your method !!

Any chance you have pics ??

Thanks !

[prowler]

You cant make it perfectly straight up to the tcase out put flange because this will not lube the u joint properly. They need a couple degrees of misallignment so they a lubed properly. So figure out angle up to tcase flange and subtract 2 degrees and weld on perches.

if you measure the t-case flange angle and put the pinion flange angle at the same the pinion shouldnt move from OEM location

[zukinstien]

if you measure the t-case flange angle and put the pinion flange angle at the same the pinion shouldnt move from OEM location

The pinion is not set pointing directly at the t case flange from OEM though they ensure a couple degrees of missalignment to allow for proper lubrication of the u joint. If it is perfectly straight then it will not circulate grease properly and you will be replacing the u joint more often.

[outsydthbox]

The pinion is not set pointing directly at the t case flange from OEM though they ensure a couple degrees of missalignment to allow for proper lubrication of the u joint. If it is perfectly straight then it will not circulate grease properly and you will be replacing the u joint more often.

Boggdeep is right.
     There is more to it than lubrication.  Look up the thread about "drive-line phasing"... If the t-case tail flange is angled, lets say...12 degrees "down", then your pinion flange needs to be angled 12 degrees "UP" (within 2 degrees) this will minimize, or eliminate drive-line vibes.

[prowler]

The pinion is not set pointing directly at the t case flange from OEM though they ensure a couple degrees of missalignment to allow for proper lubrication of the u joint. If it is perfectly straight then it will not circulate grease properly and you will be replacing the u joint more often.

the u-joint isnt whats really important. its lubricating the final drive assembly when you point the pinion upwards. when you point the pinion upwards the filler plug/hole goes lower then itll give a wrong reading to a full differential

[zukinstien]

the u-joint isnt whats really important. its lubricating the final drive assembly when you point the pinion upwards. when you point the pinion upwards the filler plug/hole goes lower then itll give a wrong reading to a full differential

How does a HP diff get proper lubrication then? As for the u joint i geuss it depends on how much lift you have if you only make it the same angle as the t case flange then your u joint will be way out of allignment and you will get bad vibrations. As far as a d shaft being in phase that has to do with the way the u joints line up mot the angles they are at.

[outsydthbox]

A hp diff is made to run at that angle. It IS proper to "point" the diff at the t-case if using the "double cardan"
(did I spell that right?) style U-joints

[Skyman]

Yes you spelled it right. and you are correct. Double cardans's (Toyota cv drive lines) point directly at the transfer case for a vibration free ride.

U-joints are greased fittings, they get lube as long as they are filled form the zerk. Gears and fill holes in high pinion differentials are in a different position to allow for proper lube.

As for pinion angle, If you do not put the flanges of both the transfer case and the pinion within 2 degrees of parallel
#1) you will get vibrations from hell.
#2) the u-joints will wear prematurely.

That's why all the instructions that come with SPOA kits specifically state "place the perches on top of the axle, and set them parallel to the stock perches, tack weld then re-check." I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but it's common knowledge and fact that the pinion and transfer case flanges need to be parallel for the shafts and joints to function properly. Some people "fudge it" a little by dropping the pinion 2 degrees lower than parallel to allow for the upward travel during hard acceleration caused by axle wrap. (and this works well with soft springs)

In short
If you do not have a dual cardan shaft make the flanges parallel.

If you do have a double/dual cardan /Toyota CV shaft, point the pinion directly at the transfer case for proper shaft operation, but make sure you keep the differential "over full" to allow for proper lube of the ring and pinion.

By all means, set it up anyway you want it's your rig, but if you don't follow the above guidelines, you will have non stop issues with your drive lines and U-joints.

[Mope]

Well put Sky.

[prowler]

How does a HP diff get proper lubrication then? As for the u joint i geuss it depends on how much lift you have if you only make it the same angle as the t case flange then your u joint will be way out of allignment and you will get bad vibrations. As far as a d shaft being in phase that has to do with the way the u joints line up mot the angles they are at.

HP designs have oil slinger lubrication device(s) to lubricate the r&p.

too much an angle wouldnt damage the u-joint per say, the driveshaft would bind because too much of an angle. so a high clearance u-joint driveshaft design would get rid of that problem like the trail tough and RRO KAD driveshafts

[ack]

boggdeep said:
measure angle of the t-case output flange with an angle finder and put the pinion at that same angle

You cant make it perfectly straight up to the tcase out put flange because this will not lube the u joint properly. They need a couple degrees of misallignment so they a lubed properly. So figure out angle up to tcase flange and subtract 2 degrees and weld on perches.

This does not sound right, zukinstein.

Every document that I have ever read states that the angle of both u-joints must match each other (read - the faces of the tcase and pinion flanges are parallel to each other) to avoid driveline phase vibrations.. The logic would be
that driveline phase vibrations are more damaging that u-joint lubrication problems (if any).

My position documentation is:

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/driveline/

http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html

Of course, this does not apply to drivelines with Double Cardan joints - which are also described in the above links.  I have a Toyota DC on my truck.

I mention all this not to be a smart-[censored] or to pick on anyone - I only want fellow zukers understand that physics and logic trumps undocumented internet heresay every time!

I am also down with my position being proven wrong with facts.

Also, it's more fun to wheel than to wrench.

Cordially,

[prowler]

Also, it's more fun to wheel than to wrench.

Cordially,

i cant agree with you there, i think its half and half depending on what kind of wrenching you mean wrenching when adding more mods is fun, wrenching when repairing broken parts sucks

its all part of the sport

[outsydthbox]

I don't like wrenching as much as I like NOT having to pay someone else to screw-up my stuff...And wait a few days for them to "get around to it" That's where I get my satisfaction... I can screw it up myself as quick, and as often as I want to.

[rockrat]

Threads like this are almost as fun as scapping your finger nails down a chalk board!!

Facts.
2 joint shafts flanges parrallel
Cardon joint(3Joint shaft) pinion points to the case

Out of phase shafts cause premature wear of the U-Joints by lack of lubrication to 2 of the caps opposite each other.

HP diffs are reverse gear and have either a slinger or a restrictor to keep the oil at the upper pinion bearing longer.

+or- 3 deg in any of the above configuration should be fine.
Soft springs cause wrap which can cause vibe on acceleration

Every lift is a little different everyones truck here has different mods. NO PERFECT answer except start out with the Above 1st..

[ack]

What rockrat sez!

 

I tend to chew my nails a lot  so I hope my posts don't create too much painful noise...